»Universal Theory (for everyone) !«

I think a lot of what you say makes sence but its a bit to technical and not so much universal
I think we both have a similar idea about the golden code although we say it differently. I think that the golden aura that Neo sees is as you put it a reflection on basic reality, but i think of it slightly differently.

Think of each world being a matrix. In a sence they mean the same thing. A matrix is a situation or surrounding substance within which something else originates, develops, or is contained. The state of reality that we live in is a type of matrix. You then have another world, the artificial matrix.

Then you have a third form of reality (consiousness or matrix). Machine awareness, processes and consiousness run a form of matrix, reality. A machine matrix. This matrix is simulation as starbuck says, but it is none the less a place where something (machine consious) originated, developed and is now contained.

As Morpheus states in M1 - "we marveled at our own magnificants, as we gave birth to AI.... A singular consiousness that spawned an entire race of machines."

Moving on To Neo being the one. I have come up with this idea. Neo is the oricles "one". This is why she continues to call him the one in m3 after Neos encounter with the architect.

To the architect Neo is just a glitch that has to be maintained. He sets up a system of control to send him back. To the oricle, Neo is the one who will break from this system and save humanity (which he does)

I think we are reading too much into the existance of Neo crap. Here is my final thinking on it, feel free to comment:

As we see Neo and trinity over the fields, we see that all the growing eggs are connected to the machines, because they share the golden aura that everything else machine like has.

Neos life is the matrixes way of dealing with the sytematic error or choice which is inherent to the system. Neo isn't chosen, (i take this back) but he is predicted to come along sometime, because of the nature of the way humans are born and how all the growing infants are part of the system.

This glitch allows Neo to change things and as starbuck rightly says, have a closer touch on reality than any other who is made for the matrix.

Neo needs to return to the source so he can select 23 individuals to rebiuld zion for the 1% who choose against the matrix.

THE MATRIX ISN'T RELOADED AT ALL. REINSERTING THE PRIME PROGRAM MEANS THAT THE MACHINES WILL REINSERT THE PRIME PROGRAM INTO NEO.

He needs to be cleaned of this anomaly which he carries (code being the awareness he has) and reinserted with the the prime program (the normal level of accpetance which is not as in touch with reality as before). in effect formatting his brain, getting rid of all memory of his power in the matrix.

Neo will then have to lead 23 people to help rebiuld Zion and so the cycle continues.

Its a bit sketchy and im gonna rewrite it to make it look better, but i really want you guys to comment on it cause i could be improved. Thanx for starbuck and people for there great ideas on this forum. (all of which will be part of the universal theory that will be made)

HazzyBO wrote:

this is all good stuff. I like it and i am analising it in more depth cause its pretty deep stuff! ill get back to you on these things later. But one thing about Neo being the one is why is it him. What would happen if there were more than 1 people who had that same insight to reality that Neo has? there surely couldn't be 2 "ones". The archiect and the oricle gathered all these glitches which accumilated in the matrix because of anomaly caused by emotion (im guessing) and somehow put them into Neo. This is the part that i dont understand. Why does the one have to exist in the first place? Why is it nessisary to have to return to the source the result of this anomaly. Neo is the eventuality of an anomaly. what im asking is, is Neos ability to be closely attuned to the matrix world, actually his choice. Since Neos life is "preordainded" by the arciect since he is designed to be the one, is he somehow grown differently to have this extra fine tuning or what. This is the crunch point. If we can get past this problem most of the riddle is solved. Come on guys think!

the matrix needs the anomaly in order for it to work...neo has this code inside and it makes him exempt from the rules of the matrix....he must be controlled...the prophecy was written to control him...it worked for his predecessors but not for him

another problem arose and in turn presented a solution to both the problem of neo recognising the prophecy as a means to control him and the problem created....which was that when neo destroyed smith...the anomaly code was duplicated....having double the code is just as dangerous to the continuation of the matrix as having no anomaly code...the solution was as the oracle described...a + and a - to cancel each other out and remove the need for an anomaly....this means there will be no other reinsertion of the anomaly code into a human as the equation has finally been solved by the machines evolution of conciousness due to there encounter with neo/smith

the problem is that this fake prophecy has actually come true in the form of sati...she has the ablility to "change the matrix as she sees fit" and is demonstrated by the sunrise

remember...the prophecy said that the coming of the oe would end the war(which has happened) and herald the destruction of the matrix(which has not happened) and this could be what sati will eventually do....if she can change the matrix to such a huge extent then surely this will cause people to question the nature and reality of their surroundings....

this is what the oracle wants to stop and this is why she is looking after sati...as sati running wild and causing disruption may result in the machines wagng was on the humans again...which judging from the oracles comment "the peace will last as long as it can" implies that she already sees the war restarting


as for the points about the architect writting programmes for every person....think of the fractal generation mentioned elsewhere in this forum...the humans are partially programmed to obey the rules of the matrix ie gravity...but the architect only writes the "effect" side of the "cause and effect"...what i mean is the human decides to chop down a tree...the architect does not write the programme that governs this action but he is responsible for making sure the tree reacts the way it should...or if not him then a programme that he wrote governs it

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I think a lot of what you say makes sence but its a bit to technical and not so much universal I think we both have a similar idea about the golden code although we say it differently. I think that the golden aura that Neo sees is as you put it a reflection on basic reality, but i think of it slightly differently

It may be to technical in the fact that I reference Simulacra and Simulations which not everyone may know about but I think the basic theory is very relevant.

I think about it as layers of an onion. The top layer is the Matrix. It totally hides the true nature of the core as well as the other layers below to get to the core. Peel that layer away and you begin to realize there are layers. Now the second layer is the green code. It still hides the core reality but you are now aware of the differnet layers and at least have the knowlegde of the layers if not the actual desire to dig deeper to see what the true nature of the onion is. Of course the third layer is the real world and the core is the actual reality of the onion. It is the essence of the onion. The lifeforce or the consciousness if you will.

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Think of each world being a matrix. In a sence they mean the same thing. A matrix is a situation or surrounding substance within which something else originates, develops, or is contained. The state of reality that we live in is a type of matrix. You then have another world, the artificial matrix Then you have a third form of reality (consiousness or matrix). Machine awareness, processes and consiousness run a form of matrix, reality. A machine matrix. This matrix is simulation as starbuck says, but it is none the less a place where something (machine consious) originated, developed and is now contained.

The true reality of the orange code is different than the processes that are running. The processes are the simple mechanincs of the mind simular to our moving our arms and legs or typing these posts. It has nothing to do with the core of the life force. If there is another matrix that the machines work in, that is not the green matrix of the humans, it has nothing to do with the orange code that Neo sees. It will be another artificial environment that we have never seen in the movies.

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THE MATRIX ISN'T RELOADED AT ALL. REINSERTING THE PRIME PROGRAM MEANS THAT THE MACHINES WILL REINSERT THE PRIME PROGRAM INTO NEO. He needs to be cleaned of this anomaly which he carries (code being the awareness he has) and reinserted with the the prime program (the normal level of accpetance which is not as in touch with reality as before). in effect formatting his brain, getting rid of all memory of his power in the matrix.

Why would the machines insert the prime program into Neo? The architect says he will diseminate the code Neo carries thus reinserting the prime program. Even though he does not specifically state where he will insert the program, why would he extract code from Neo only to reinsert it into him agian. That does not make sense to me.

I think he "scatters" the essence of Neo into the Matrix thus upgrading it and making it more stable. I think each version of the matrix lasts longer than the previous one. Each time it is upgraded it takes longer for the anomaly to reapear because it is an upgraded matrix designed to make humans more content with their environment and less willing to rebel. This causes the cycle to take longer each time it is run. Eventually though the anomaly does emerge and the process starts over agian.

This essence is the sum of Neo. It is his experiences and his knowlegde and his awareness of reality, his consciousness. It is downloaded into the matrix. The Architect is a machine and he sees the mind as a computer so it is natural for him to call this sum of essence "code".

so what do you think? Where are we on the universal theory?

Starbuck

as for the universal theory i think this is where we stand:

1. We all agree that Neo has extended awareness.
2. We all agree that there are different types of reality (matrices, worlds, layers of reality)
3. We all agree that Neo is the result of an anomaly being choice which gives him the abilty to be more in touch with reality than others (i think we agree on this right?)


I think this is where we stand, if there are more things that we agree on then say, (ive gotten a bit confused on where we all stand..)

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Why would the machines insert the prime program into Neo? The architect says he will diseminate the code Neo carries thus reinserting the prime program. Even though he does not specifically state where he will insert the program, why would he extract code from Neo only to reinsert it into him agian. That does not make sense to me.

let me explain better, the architect knows that someone will become powerfull inside the matrix. He also knows that the matrix will always try to balance itself out. This will result eventually in a system crash. is 2 entities become too powerful. IM thinking that Neo has to be ridden of this special code which allows neo to do the things he does.

I know the archtect says that there were 5 versions before, but i think this done anyway as a result of Neo reaching the source, so that everyones mind will be erased of the things that they saw, like neo flying around and stuff like that.

The reason that i wonder about this is that the 5 previous ones after returning to the source, then they could tell all the people that they freed the way the system works. Also if they still had there ability to change things, then they could still disrupt the matrix and would lead to the matrix getting out of control because Neo would still be powerful and the matrix would need to balance itself out.

These are just my questions

thoughts?

the code would not be re-inserted into neo...it would be re-inserted into another child in the matrix...

the architect clearly knew throughout neos life that neo was the anomaly as neos entire life is shown on the screens behind him in reloaded...

i think that the collective memories of the anomaly code are wiped before it is reinserted...this then gives the matrix its next 100 years of stablility

the problem with this theory is that if the emergence of 1 anomaly to the next is 100 years then why was neo only x years old(clearly not 100)when he ws freed

is this a hint that time in the matrix runs at a different from real time similar to a computer game

does this mean that a body plugged into the matrix actually lives several lives in the matrix due to this difference

I was thinking hard about the matrix when all of a sudden i thought of something interesting..

Everybody plugged in to the matrix as well as all machines originiated from basic reality, or the machine world. (source) When neo is over the fields he sees all the growing infants as well as the people hooked up to the matrix as part of that world.

just thought that it was interesting....

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as for the universal theory i think this is where we stand: 1. We all agree that Neo has extended awareness. 2. We all agree that there are different types of reality (matrices, worlds, layers of reality) 3. We all agree that Neo is the result of an anomaly being choice which gives him the abilty to be more in touch with reality than others (i think we agree on this right?)

That sounds about right.

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let me explain better, the architect knows that someone will become powerfull inside the matrix. He also knows that the matrix will always try to balance itself out. This will result eventually in a system crash. is 2 entities become too powerful. IM thinking that Neo has to be ridden of this special code which allows neo to do the things he does.

I dont think there is any special code that allows Neo to have the abilities he does. it is his grasp on reality that allows it. In the Matrix he knows the environment is not real so he is able to lucid dream any reality he wants. In the real world there is another layer of reality below this world. That is the orange (lifeforce) code that he sees. Because he is aware of this sub layer of reality he is able to manipulate the envoronment in the real world just as he does in the matrix environment. It is his expanded mind that allows this. No one has ever delved this deep into the nature of reality before. The architect has always stoped it by reintegrating the one back into the matrix by down loading his code (his life experiences and knowledge) back into the matrix. This keeps the one from continueing his journey to enlightenment and upgrades the matrix to make it more perfect. It also allows for growth in humans. because it is diseminated throughout the matrix it is incorporated into all entities in the matrix both digital and organic.

Neo is different in that he choose the left door and his journey to enlightenment and grasp on reality did not end. thus causing an end to the war. This was inevitable and in fact unstopable because of the unbalancing entity of Smith. The Oracle saw this coming and was waiting for it to happen because she wants and end to the conflict because she sees machine evolving with emotions etc. She knows that the future of life on the planet and the understanding and accepting of the machine evolutoin can only be accomplished hand in hand with humans.


Would you agree that Neo has not had code downloaded into him?

Starbuck

Im pretty sure that The code Neo carries is erronious and has come about because of the anomaly. Im guessing that the code which he carries could be referring to his abilities.

The whole Reinserting the prime program into Neo thing was just a train of thought which, when thinking aobut it again doesn't really make much sence...

but a question that i have is why didn't the previous ones tell the 23 people that he chose that it was all a system of control?

I reckon somehow Neo would have to be altered to percieve reality differet after choosing the 23 people to rebiuld zion..

thought?

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Im pretty sure that The code Neo carries is erronious and has come about because of the anomaly. Im guessing that the code which he carries could be referring to his abilities. The whole Reinserting the prime program into Neo thing was just a train of thought which, when thinking aobut it again doesn't really make much sence... but a question that i have is why didn't the previous ones tell the 23 people that he chose that it was all a system of control? I reckon somehow Neo would have to be altered to percieve reality differet after choosing the 23 people to rebiuld zion.. thought?

I think it is absolutely referring to his abilities. It is the system of control the Architect has implemented to control this runaway anomaly that keeps the matrix stable. Once that runaway anomaly is no longer under the Architects system of control the matrix will fail.

Architect wrote:

The Architect - Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race. Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive. The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept

It is unbridled grasp on reality that Neo experiences that identifies him as the anomaly. this expansion of mind is suppressed by the VR environment of the Matrix. Only 1% escape the matrix and of those 1% only a very few abtain this level of comprehension of reality. I suspect that if Neo would not be lead back to the architect others would beging to exhibit simular qualities. I think the "kid" is a good example of someone that is on the verge of this expanded grasp on reality. If the control over Zion and Neo were to remain in place the "kid" would be destroyed along with the rest and never bring this ability to fruition. That is how humans are controled and kept in check from a runaway failure of the matrix through an expanded grasp on reality facilitated by love. Neo just happens to be the first and when the first appears he is manipulated back to the source and the rest of the free humans are exterminated.


Hazzy,

I dont know if you have been following some of the other threads sceinthiest and I have been conversing in but I believe he is in the middle of a major rewrite of some of his theories. I dont know the outcome of those yet but I suspect they may be in line with ours. We are very close to a universal theory!

What do you feel is left to be defined in our universal theory and where do you feel we differ still?


Starbuck

Ive been away for a while and ill be getting back to these forums soon

While i was away i read this interesting book, evolutionary psychology and think that Neos mind is a program. Ill explain later... can't talk now

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I think it is absolutely referring to his abilities. It is the system of control the Architect has implemented to control this runaway anomaly that keeps the matrix stable. Once that runaway anomaly is no longer under the Architects system of control the matrix will fail.

exactly...this is what i too believe...the system for controlling the anomaly must be the oracle...this is her purpose...to "guide" neo to the source and keep the anomaly under control

The "escalating probability if left unchecked..." is not Neo but the exponentially increasing population of Zion which is composed of the approximately one percent of humans who do not except the program because they choose not to. The architect even tells us that Neo is the SUM of the remainder of the unbalanced equation. Zion is the remainder and the unbalanced aspect is CHOICE. We can be confident that the population is increasing exponentially because of what Morpheus says about freeing more minds in the last six months than in the last hundred years. The architect goes on to talk about a connection designed to facilitate the function of the one, this is altruism, which he feels"much more specifically," as love for Trinity.

how can neo stop sentinals? Hes more powerful than thier source,or in other words hes smarter than where they came from.
how can he see the golden aura? the source of the sentinals is based upon light but it has been veiled or hidden to be made to look like something else or something similar which happens to be dark in the movie so when it is seen by neo he has something to compare it to, this is the way are brains work the best compare and contrast it takes a new creation to see the golden aora, and that is what neo is. anomaly: someone who can get out of the matrix on his own not confined to it or does not have to follow its rules. oracle:she sees the big picture, but not all the details she knows the end from the begining thiis is summed up in a word "mystery" neo gets to mobile ave.:hes an anomaly Why is neo different: the other One's came but the matrix not ready for them neocame about at the right time. how did neo come back to life: by faith, he belived it would happen, not could happen. the oracles words ment something to him both said to him and trinity.

Everything so far in the theory seems reasonable, however this my take on the topic of "anomaly" which can seem confusing at times to some people.

This term is loosely used and very easily confused? It is not important "who" the anomaly is. What's important and what we should focus on is 'what does the architect "mean" when he speaks of the anomaly'

Here is my take on this. I don't claim to be right, however we must consider this possiblity.

Why there is a confusion of anomaly or anomalies (plural)
The architect has always refer to anomaly(singular), as a "systemic" result, due to unbalances in the equation that must be checked or else there will be a disaster. There are many anomalous behaviors that were contributing factors to the eventual "systemic anamoly". Few examples of anomalous behavior are in Beyond and spoon kid. I also would like to add that Smith behavior was anomalous also. Smith behavior is anomalous in a sense that it threatens stability of the Matrix.

Neo did not accept the rule and physics of the Matrix, that is why he is able to fly. His behavior is anomalous. I think when agent say " It's him, the anomaly" , They are refering to his anomalous behavior. Therefore we should not take it literally that Neo is an anomaly.

If I'm not mistaken, the Oracle also refer to Smith as an anomaly. Does that make Smith the anamoly also? So it brings up the next question, Are there multiple anomalies?

Now if the arguement is there are multiple anomalies (plural). So is Neo or Smith the anomaly? Will the real "anomaly" please stand up.

The answer is: it's not important and doesn't matter "who is" the anomaly or if there are multiple anomalies.

BOTTOM LINE:
The bottom line is, I don't think Anomaly is any person or individual. There is only one anomaly and it refers to a "systemic" result from an unbalanced equations that must be checked or else a disaster would occur.

So in conclusion we can say anything that threatens the stability of the Matrix or disrupt the otherwise balanced equation , can be viewed as anomalous behaviors which will be contributing factors to the eventual "systemic anomaly". I believe this theory is very much in line with the Architect's single anomaly view, in addition it explains the confusions of why some people think there are multiple anomalies. Any thoughts....?

The anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations. - Architect

While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. -- Architect

Yea this is what ive been thinkin about. IT DOESN'T MATTER!

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Ive been away for a while and ill be getting back to these forums soon While i was away i read this interesting book, evolutionary psychology and think that Neos mind is a program. Ill explain later... can't talk now

I have been anxiously awaiting this theory? have you had a chance to post it yet?


Starbuck

HazzyBO wrote:

- How did Neo come back to life in the first movie.

trinity fried his mind. simply this.

neo's purpose is to feach the source. he will not die unless this purpose comes true. he dies a little before this purpose comes true.
trinity's purpose is to be in love with the one. she dies a little before the one dies.

trinity said:you can't die. my purpose is to be in love with the one. you must be the one cause i am in love with you (not exaclty theese words but this is the meaning.).

theese word are freeing neo's mind and he understands that there are no bullets to kill him.

the question is how is he able to hear trinity while he is dead.?
the answer is: when the heart stops the brain lives at about 6 minutes more. (that's why doctors are making electric shocks to save a patient.). if the brain dies the hole body is clinically dead.

i heard i theory that neo passes dead and resurrection just like jesus. but i didn't agree with it.

Hey Guys, Im back now and i think we are pretty much finalised on the "universal theory". All of us together have come up with it and i strongly believe that it is the correct one.

Just a couple of things that i thought were interesting and might tie into the theory...

I read this book Evolutionary Phsycology and it is very interesting.

The whole theory origionates from the idea of cognitive psychology, Which is the most powerful theory of the mind ever developed.

The two main ideas in this approach to psychology are that actions are caused by mental processes, and 2, the mind is a computer ( in a way).

ok let me explain a bit deeper...

1) actions are caused by mental processes - the whole cause and effect thing. (If Jim takes an umbrella out then its probably because its raining)

2) The mind is a computer program - a computer being a sex of perations for processing information. In other words a comptuer is not a physical machine but rather an abstract specifiacation of a possible machine. It can be biult in many ways.
Even though machines would have physically different designs, they wuold all be the same kind of computer. So in this sense a computer is a program, not a hardware (it computes information).

Basically you can run this program on many differnt types of computers (ie. in the matrix, the brain and the machines). The brain is hardware, the mind is software...


So this is the basic idea of cognative psychology and the book goes on to how our minds are constanty evolving from generation to generation. As the mind is given the oppitunaty to fill up with information then it will evolve to hold more...

Its facinating and its also interesting to note that the wachowski brothers gave this book to the whole cast to read before filming...

So in reply to starbuck saying that the mind has finally evolved to see basic reality, i think this is correct. I think that since the humans inside the matrix are created from the machines, plus Neos unique take on reality, Neo has evolved to see the basic layer of reality.

So is it time to start writing the final theory....?

allright this is something that I will never understand if the machines are trying to win this war and kill everyone in zion what is the purpose of creating the oracle program to help them?

Theorytoendall wrote:

allright this is something that I will never understand if the machines are trying to win this war and kill everyone in zion what is the purpose of creating the oracle program to help them?

I'm not sure what ur asking. But I'll summarize it.

* The Oracle allowed CHOICE in the matrix. People are able to lucid dream (ie) have control over their dreams

* Some people develop greater control over their dreams and acquire super powers. (Like jumping 10 ft high, bending spoons etc.). Its been debated much, but I call these people as "anomalies"

* So the machines quarantined them in a seperate place. That place is Zion

* The people were made to believe that Zion is the last human city and they were made to believe in a fake prophecy to find the One. The purpose of the prophecy and fake war is to make the One return to the source.

* When the One is returned, Zion is destroyed and rebuilt and the cycle continues.

So, Zion serves two purposes

1. To quarantine the powerful lucid dreamers

2. To find the One

Neo is simply perceiving magnetic waves.

Every AI is connected to the big network (the fractal we see in beginning).

The matrix is connected through radio waves (MORPHEUS: This is where we broadcast our pirate signal and hack into the Matrix) and so are humans since rebels can emulate a connected body by waves (the headplug is only leading to a signal adaptor, because our brain can't understand the coding without an interface, just as you need a fax to understand the electric signals from your hardline).

Neo connected to the source through the sentinels ("that's what you felt when you touched these sentinels") and passed out because, by destroying them, he cut the link as if he was suddenly unplugged ("you should be dead") but his RSI was so much like Neo' spirit that it felt the love for Trinity ans stayed there (Rama - talking about love: "Then perhaps the reason you're here is not so different from the reason I'm here").

Neo does not see humans, neither vessels or the babies in the field, but he sees everything that is emmitting radio-waves.

He does not see the bar with wich he kills Smith, but sees Smith very well (because he's emmiting too). Notice that the Brothers decided that Bane had to lurk Neo into a room without batteries or else, they would have been obliged to show the room glowing since batteries are plenty of electric energy, and then everything would have been too obvious since it would have been the only inanimate human's object that Neo sees...