»The significance of 0«

Did anyone notice that, in the beginning of the first Matrix, the room that Trinity is in when the cops find her is 303? And later, Neo's Matrix room number is 101. And then in the Neb, Neo's room is 101.

We all know that Neo is the one (hence all of the 1s around him wherever he goes), and that Trinity is, for some reason (despite her name), three (thus all of the 3s around her. But what is up with the zero?

Here are some thoughts I have:
1. Zero is nothing, nowhere, no signifigence (like a cypher).
2. When you multiply 0 by a number (such as 3, for example), the answer is ALWAYS 0. This is also very similar to Agent Smith's pattern in Reloaded and Revolutions. THUS HE MULTIPLIES.
3. 0 spans on forever and yet is never "real." Real as in trangible. You can touch 3 jellybeans (as another example), you can touch 2 jellybeans, but you can never touch 0 jellybeans. But then again, as morpheus said, if we're referring to real as what we can feel, what we can smell, what we can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by our brain.
4. 0 is probably the only number that is nuetral. Not positive or negative.

What do you think?

Holy crap. I was reading you post and I thought of this poem I read a long time ago... well after doing a little reaserch I found something that might make a lot of sense to everyone who has a theory on the zeros.

As a matter of fact this might actually explain neo's actions at the end of M3 so I might start a new topic with the same info.

Lao Tzu

Thirty spokes share a wheel hub,
it is the (empty) space (not spokes, nor hub) makes wheel useful.
Shape clay into a vessel,
It is the empty space within, makes it useful.
Cut doors and windows for a room,
It is the holes, make a room a room.
Therefore, what is there defines its form,
what is not there defines its use.

this is taken from this website

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He says of the empty vessel that it has the purpose of containment by virtue of its emptiness but that, when full, it has lost the "nothing" and achieved its purpose.

That's really incredible! I like that a lot.

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John Smith with is sometimes used as a random name on advertisments and in a demonstration used when showing you how to fill out a form.

Yeah, but the most common is John Doe, or if its a girl, Jane Doe. But they use the name Smith a lot. But you see, that was kind of the point in M1. You notice that all of the characters who are in the matrix or are programs have very anonimous names. Mr. Anderson. Agent Smith. Agent Jackson. Agent Johnson. Agent Brown. All of the Agents, in general, have anonimous names. That gives them the power to go to many different cities in the Matrix and have people forget about them. Because generally people remember weird names. And for Neo, he's "nobody." He doesn't exist.

You're theories are really, really cool, and they bring up good points! Glad that you remembered that!

Very happy Splintey

Thanks, here I was thinking that all the random BS in my head was going to waste.

I guess we can now throw in the Taoist to the groups of religions represented in the matrix movies.

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Thanks, here I was thinking that all the random BS in my head was going to waste.

We ALL feel like that sometimes, but don't worry. All random things are precious.
PS. The U.B.I for today (Useless Bits Of Information) is that ancient Rome had a rent-a-chariot business.

Thats not A UBI if your Enterprise Rent a car.... the romans miight sue for copy right infringment....


Back on topic has anyone else thought of ways that nothing actually makes the Matrix work... I have to run to work but I will elaborate later

:whatthe:
Okay, NOTHING in that last post made sense. Can you repeat, please?

Basically I was making a joke on his Useless bit of information.

And i guess if I had more time then I would have been able to explain what I ment...

The matrix has to account for a lot of things many of them may never come into play....i.e. life in the deepest reaches of the sea, galaxies out of our view, insect colonies and behavior .... basically a lot of nothing (as far as most peoples day to day life)... but if one of these things didn't happen in the matrix would it have an effect on the matrix in the long run

That's very true. If I was a program, I would LOVE to be incharge of making random thoughts for people to think of or study. Usually people think of space as nothingness, or blackness, but essentially, nothingness has no color or is made of all colors, no space or infinate space, and is out of the range of time. But then again, to the W. Brothers, nothingness and nowhere is a TRAINSTATION! :whitelaugh: But they meant nowhere as in nowhere in the Matrix and nowhere in the program world. But I personally think that nowhere and nothingness applies to the individual, kind of like "a perfect world" for the first Matrix. Whenever I think of the 1st Matrix or watch the Architect monologue, I wonder, "Perfect for whom? Who defines 'perfect?' What I think is perfect and what you think is perfect are two VERY different perfects. And who decides what's perfect for ME? A program?" To me, perfect, nothingness, and nowhere are all like real.

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Morpheus: What is real. How do you define real? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.

Really makes you think.

The first matrix IMHO was a place where everything was perfect, basically stating that whatever you wanted instantly you had it. It was so perfect that our simple human brains started to get suspisious and knew that there was something amiss. So humans by the thousands started unpluging themselves and with no where to go and nothing to do they simply got flushed.... but as this epedimic started to grow the machines evalutated the problems and gave our mind something to think about other than freedom from virtual reality... giving us day to day problems and then setting up controls to handle the ones that did "wake up".

(DISCLAMER) But like I said earlier those are just my thoughts and they in no way express what was actually seen in the movies or the views of the WB's, Warner Brothers Movie division, or anyone else who would like to flame or file suit against said thoughts. Thank you.

That's a very good theory! I think it's more logical than the garden of Eden thing. Because in the "story," (there are actually TWO stories, but we'll ignore that), there are only two people, Adam and Eve (Neo and Trinity? Mero and Persephone? Oracle and Seraph?). And that's not necessarily perfect.

You're tale lacks something though. If the humans got whatever they wanted, what if someone wished for another person (say, someone else's wife)? What if the wife didn't WANT to be with that person? On the one hand, he could make her love him, but then that wouldn't be perfect for her or for her husband. And if she gets her way and goes back with her husband to live happily again, then the other person would be left misreable. And then we get into nasty world domination issues that shouldn't be discussed. And besides, then, if this was true, people could go around killing other people until there were no people LEFT. Unless you mean 'perfect' as in oblivious without thought, time, or feeling. Hmm..?

No No No, I meant the matrix as a multitasking program in other words every person connected to the matrix had a different experience..

I don't really understand. Will you enlighten me? Do you mean oblivious happiness (similar to the garden story)?

What I am saying is that maybe the first matrix was many mini matrices instead of 1 so that the machines could ensure everyones happines because I am sure that the figured that you can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time.... The only problem with that reasoning is that if you do end up pleasing all of the all of the time people aren't pleased...

This works, but everyone would then be alone, and it still doesn't solve the whole wive-husband-wisher triangle. Or any of the other problems.

splintey, xhadow, u should read this essay at the matrix's philosophy section. xhadow, if u havent already read it, it very closely parallels ur ideas. you two MUST read it

Reflections on the first matrix -

Thats it thats exactly what I was trying to convey. Thank you for expressing my thoughts a little clearer. I will definately go read that forum.

very cool, ralph! I like that. But what if someone was conjoined? Like, siamese twins (not the best term for it though, some find it offensive)? What would happen then? I think I've posted that argument somewhere (feels disorganized), maybe in the preposting..."welcometothedesertofthereal." Try to read it. Because would they be together?
Thanks for calling me by my alias. I'm trying to encourage the usage of "splintey," but no one's taken the hint. It's like everyone else's minds are mush or something....

splintey,
abt the question raised in that topic, they are unanswerable. we simply dont have any info. we dont even know if there are conjoined twins in the matrix.

but how does it apply in the context of this thread? all i can say is that if two people were conjoined in the real world, they neednt be conjoined in the matrix, as they only share blood, not the neural system. but i cant imagine the machines creating conjoined twins in the real world. it would create some logistic problems - they'd need modified pods and life-support systems, larger enclosures in the power plants, etc. they wouldnt do it, since it would serve no purpose. even if they wanted conjoined twins in the matrix for the sake of appearanes, they could give normal people conjoined bodies in the matrix. but this provides an interesting argument for this thread

But, as far as the machines are concerned, the perfect world has nothing to do with perfect humans. HUMANS AREN'T PERFECT! That's why so many broke out of the false world. So again, I ask, perfect for WHOM? Does "perfect" mean that we are "normal," no gentetic malfunctions? Because that would wipe out a lot of people (because many people are prone to diseases through their genes and look "normal" and are "normal"). Which brings up another interesting question (what if someone still attatched to the Matrix got a genetic disease, or any kind of sickness, or a cancer of some sort? Would the machines find some exuse for them to die, weed them out because they aren't producing enough energy, or just have them "randomly combust?") but I'll add that as a new topic.
But back to the perfect thing. Would perfect be without emotion? Pain? Would perfect be oblivion (although it sounds like it wouldn't, from what you've said above). Because, if conjoined twins really did exist in the matrix, it wouldn't be "perfect" for them.

the purpose of the simulation is to keep humans under control. the machines dont care whats in the simulation as long as humans are under lock and key. the first matrix would be perfect for humans, for every human. among other things, this would mean getting everything you want. i dont think oblivion would perfection. personally, oblivion is maybe the only thing i really fear.

...i remember that i read something about meaning of Neo's room number in the book "Exploring the Matrix". There they associated it with George Orwells "1984" where the room 101 is the brain wash center.
Neo aka Winston Smith and Trinity aka the beloved Julia. It's also a nice theory i think...

to be honest i dont think siamise twins are possible. That only happens because two organisms growing in a womb get joined somehow. I think all the growing pods would only have one egg in it, to stop this from happening. But you never know....

I think all the people in the pods healwise are fine. To have unhealthy people would be stupid. Do you see any ill people in Zion? But the RSIs could be unhealthy because humans define real through suffering.

nice theory, but i would think that 3 digits is something too flimsy too associate two great works of fiction. dont let splintey hear this, he's a guy who specialises in this kind of association.

anyway here are some comparisons :
1.winston smith is fat, middle aged, bald and rather ordinary. neo is a kung-fu fashionista.
2.winston smith is terrified of the authorities and in astounding display of rare bravery and strength of will he writes a diary. on the other hand, the authorities are afraid of neo. "i know you're afraid"
3.winston smith's idea of resisting the authorities(as he says) is fucking julia. but neo's romance with trinity was engineered, arguably by the authorities.
4.in the end, winston submits to the authorities and loses to cowardice. so does julia. but neo prevails and 'chooses' the right thing. trinity also gets a heroine's death.
5.big brother's control springs from fear. the matrix has nothing to do with fear, its all about hiding the truth from you and the reactionary 'gnosis'

in short, winston smith is to neo what an illiterate noam chomsky would be to bin laden. but it seems u havent read 1984 yoself, n3o. highly recommended. 100x scarier than any crap that stephen king has ever cooked up.

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to be honest i dont think siamise twins are possible. That only happens because two organisms growing in a womb get joined somehow.

even if there's only one egg, the zygote can split after fusion. but two people neednt be siamese twins in the real world, they could be programmed to be so in the matrix, to simulate randomness and imperfection in the population. appearances.

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even if there's only one egg, the zygote can split after fusion. but two people neednt be siamese twins in the real world, they could be programmed to be so in the matrix, to simulate randomness and imperfection in the population. appearances.

I agree. Think of it this way two people who honestly belive they are conjoined will act as such... Would have been one hell of a problem though if one belived in the matrix and one belived it was fake...even worse if the ONE was a conjoined twin.