»A "major plot hole" is closed«

This just occurred to me. On Revolutions we learn that the Rama-Kandra was the power plant systems manager for recycling operations. Which I believe, is the one in charge of liquefying the dead bodies and feed them to the ones still plugged in.

So, if you think about it, the "major plot hole" most people were ranting about, is finally closed.

Remember that a machine spotted Neo when he was waking up. Then it got close to him, grabbed him by the neck, watched his face, removed all the plugs from his body, and flushed him down a big pipe, were the Neb picked him up.

This has been an uneasy point with me for quite some time but this makes a lot of sense. Good eye.

which plot hole are you referring too?

Many people say that a major plot hole in the movies is the scene where Neo wakes up in his pod and a machine sees him, but instead of killing him, it frees him.

Well doesn't this throw up another question of, if the machine was controlled by Rama, why did he let Neo go? it's not as if he knew who he was. Or is this a case of the Machine knew he was the One because it could see the code Neo carried?

Yes, that is exactly my point.

hey u got a great point and u really made me think, but remmeber, those machines may have not been programed for killing. i think that when ever someone was realesed from the matrix the machines scanning the area would pick up on their signal of disconnecting and would consider them to be a dead battery and simply dump their bodies into the sewers. i dont think they were programmed or controlled by the indian guy. there has been thousands of people released from the matrix, i don think it was all becuase of the indian dude. but still great point man.

I never heard that being called a plot hole. How is it? I am sure everyone else got freed from the Matrix the same way Neo did. That machine is just there to 'unplug' people if they wake up. They would drown if the ships weren't there to pick them up. It is just part of the procedure of freeing people. No plot hole.

MATRIX_MATT wrote:

I never heard that being called a plot hole. How is it? I am sure everyone else got freed from the Matrix the same way Neo did. That machine is just there to 'unplug' people if they wake up. They would drown if the ships weren't there to pick them up. It is just part of the procedure of freeing people. No plot hole.

i believe it would be called a plot hole because the machines have little to no compunction to killing a now-useless human. why not send Neo to recycling and serve him up as lunch? why not, indeed?

I'm new to these boards, and can't seem to rip myself away from them, but I too don't see any plot hole nor a plot hole fix in this thread.

What always tripped me out was how the Neb could get access to the pool which the rejected or dead folks (via old age, or otherwise getting killed in the matrix, e.g., via car crash, disease, etc., or unplugged by zionites) were sent. I guess they would drown since they didn't know how to swim, but how in the hell could the Neb get so close? Wouldn't the machines want to keep their fuel supply protected or wouldn't it be near other machines that are protecting the whole power grid?

Figured that power grid and the pool where they slid into upon unplugging would be swarming w/ machines, security machines, etc. etc. Lot's of machines. Hell, the sentinels are constantly seeking and trying to destroy the zionites. As such, they should be able to easily detect the Neb so close to it's power grid (and note that waterslide ride was not very long, or so it didn't seem).

Ah, more question, more questions, few answers, few answers. F..k.

I am a firm believer that the machines want to keep Neo alive to see to it that he gets to the source and re-inserts the prime program, thus I could believe that they "let Neo get away" and be picked up by the Neb for that reason.

But what throws me off is the fact that all the free-minds were probably picked up in that same manner, and it's not clear to me why the machines would want all the free-minds to stay alive. In fact, w/ the sentinels constantly seeking and destroying the zionites, it appears rather clearly that the machines do not hesitate to kill other zionites.

Shit, there is no end to the speculation. Damnit. This is like a drug. Bad addicting drug.

Quote:

i believe it would be called a plot hole because the machines have little to no compunction to killing a now-useless human. why not send Neo to recycling and serve him up as lunch? why not, indeed?

Neo was being sent to recyling wasn't he? Doesn't that pool he dropped into ultimately lead to the recycling plant?

Are you suggesting that the pool was for those that are NOT going to the recycling plant?

The slide didn't seem to lead anywhere else. Perhaps, the recycling folks are pulled out of the pod and not allowed to slide down the slide? Doubt that.

Hmm... i guess, if the machines wanted to keep those that awaken in their pods--i.e., those that are freed, and not just killed in the matrix--alive for some reason, they could. Perhaps, to make the whole damn thing work, Zion needs to be well supplied w/ freed-mind folks. That could very well be.

Oh the speculation. Aghh!

Ah shit, one more comment. Since there are millions of people who die in the Matrix just as they die in the real world (right?), the machines don't need to kill the extremely tiny percentage of humans that "wake up" in their pod. Instead they just flush them down the drain w/ the rest.

Tho the machines are not that stupid. If they really want zion destroyed, they would kill all who woke in the pods for fear that they would get picked up by the zionites.

The other thought I had was that the machines might get a bit more energy out of a body that is still alive right before it is liquified, and thus, rather than kill them in the pod, they let them stay alive till the instant they are liquified.

Shit, I don't know. NO one knows. We'll never no. Am starting to think the machines are letting the zionites recover the "woken up" folks in the pods.

I guess I now kindof see where the "plot hole" was. It's indeed mystery, one of a million in the movie.

I think in the first movie, machines were being portrayed as less intelligent as far as decision-making and thinking outside of their programming. So in the first movie, the machines treat Neo (and any other of the awaken) like any other dead human and flush him without needing to kill him. In this context, it's not too bad a stretch.

The expansion of the machine mentality is developed in the sequels and at this point it doesn't make sense. If machines are so capable of choices, creation, and decision-making, why whould they allow the awaken to leave.

However, I think the explanation is given in the Architect's speech, that Zion is part of the design, and they allow these "awakened" to leave in order to free the other "non-believers" from the Matrix so that the illusion can remain more stable. Then when the One is found and the Matrix resets, they destroy Zion just to keep it under control.

Although I agree, I think Rama-Kandra was in control of that machine that found Neo (he is the recycling systems manager) and recognized him. But I don't think it is necessary to explain the plot hole.

Rember too that the crew had to provide Neo with a LOT of medical attention. In other words, there was no need for the machine to kill Neo upon extraction because he was as good as dead. Thus I never considered this a hole.

I do like the connection tho between the 2 movies via the power-plant resource manager program.

The reason I posted this is because someone on this forum claimed this to be a "major plot hole", so it is in response to that post. And when i wrote "major plot hole" I was just quoting his specific words.

There_is_no_spoon wrote:

Tho the machines are not that stupid. If they really want zion destroyed, they would kill all who woke in the pods for fear that they would get picked up by the zionites.

if they really wanted zion destroyed why would they give the 23 to rebuild it

neo and trinity also didn't have any trouble flying through the crop fields in the logos did they so I'm sure getting access to a garbage room isn't that hard



another angle to look at
the red pill that neo took was a trace program, so that the neb could pin point his location, so perhaps the neb free'd neo from his pod


zion is a place for the 0.01% of people that don't accept the matrix the machines only destroy it when it gets too large

Rama-Kandra was a program in charge of the recycling operations, he was not the program in every machine sbody. Remember all machines are self aware now, after thh second renaisaince. There not in the matrix, he wouldnt be possesing one of his fellow beings, and he was the manager, not a grunt who went around disconnecting people. The plot hole is already closed, the ral world isnt real, its just another system of control. The facilties wouldnt have exits or entrances for ships, they woudlnt need to. Does a flower have a hole in it for an ant to get inside? Why would the fields have holes in them? Why would they make power outside the city and pipe it into the city? Why wouldnt they just build space stations and have wires hanging down through the clouds sending solar power down? I mean trinity and neo went above the clouds without really trying to hard, first shot to. You dont think after hundreds of years they could build a spaceship? or even a plane? That would just leave hundreds of other plot holes open, the only theory that closes ALL the holes is the MWAM theory.

oscargabrielp wrote:

This just occurred to me. On Revolutions we learn that the Rama-Kandra was the power plant systems manager for recycling operations... Remember that a machine spotted Neo when he was waking up. Then it got close to him, grabbed him by the neck, watched his face, removed all the plugs from his body, and flushed him down a big pipe, were the Neb picked him up.

Very good idea! I like it!

But, It is not Just neo that was freed this way - all the Zionists were (except the ones who were born inside).

And architect knew all about it... So I don't agree with your idea...

========

PLUS!

I Always thought that indian dude was the matrix powerplant manager. The same powerplant that is blown up by Zionists in the M 2.
he got killed during the explosion - meant for deletion - had to go, but managed to smuggle his daughter back...

omega wrote:

But, It is not Just neo that was freed this way - all the Zionists were (except the ones who were born inside). And architect knew all about it... So I don't agree with your idea... ======== PLUS! I Always thought that indian dude was the matrix powerplant manager. The same powerplant that is blown up by Zionists in the M 2. he got killed during the explosion - meant for deletion - had to go, but managed to smuggle his daughter back...

Why do you jump to all these conclusions? Where is it implied that Rama Kandra works at the blown up power plant? He doesn't even live in The Matrix, he lives in the Machine World rmember? That's why he can't stay with Sati.

I believe Neo was indeed treated like any other human who awakened from the Matrix. The Architect said that nearly 99% of people would accept the program as long as the illusion of choice was there, so that leaves the other 1% of those who reject the program ejected from their pods, and I figure the machines don't care what happens to them after that. If they drown in the sewer because they can't swim and are liquefied to feed the others or whether they are rescued and live in Zion, the Architect already has accounted for all of them and they all get flushed when they awaken.

Echelon wrote:

Many people say that a major plot hole in the movies is the scene where Neo wakes up in his pod and a machine sees him, but instead of killing him, it frees him.

The Machines didn't set him free, they sent him down that drain into the water to die. Then thats where the Neb saved him. Morpheus did all that crap to put a trace program in Neo's body so that they could find him when he is released from the Machine World. understand?

Obviously they arent going to kill any of the humans that are awakened. Thats the whole point of Zion. The machines need the rebels to help the people who dont accept the programming out. If docbot machines didnt let them live, and the machines didnt let the ships come pick them up, then the machines would be screwing themselves because no one who didnt except the program would be able to get out, which would probally lead to a system crash. No one can just wake up by themselves, except The Kid. They need the rebels to get the bad eggs out.

Echelon,

We can't rule out that possibility.
Plus, they end up in the trainstation right after the powerplant is blown up...

Machines need Zion.
Machines know that humans get out of the powerplant and to Zion.
They could just check every body and simply snap everyone's neck to make sure they are dead.
And, as I have mentioned in so many of my earlier posts, machines can also make sure humans are disabled as soon as they leave the matrix.
There are very simple surgical procedures to help with this...