[Matrix 1]
Neo: "How about I give you the finger... and you give me my phone call."
 

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»MATRIX REVOLUTIONS EATS ITS OWN FANS COUNTERPOINT«

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More Matrix theories, More Matrix explanations

 

A_Rincewind

  

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omega wrote:

She didn't have to be absorbed just for that - if you really think so, you must really be narrow minded.


That seemd like a very ironic thing to say. Someone is narrow-minded because they have a logical opinion that you disagree with?

"a wet willy, mr. timberlake..."
Doctor Shaft

  

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I don't think Smith's entire M3 speech at the end was Smith. Rmemeber, Mr. Anderson is Smith personality. Neo is Oracle talking. In the beginning, Smith is saying, "Mr. Anderson... blah blah blah."

Finally, at the pivotal moment of the entire fight, Smith is realizing his vision comes true. Then he remembers the rest of the "image" and simply repeats it. It's a message from the Oracle. Smith calls Neo by his "chosen" name. Not the given Mr. Anderson. That's Oracle "talking" or being represented. But that's it, at least in my opinion.

Secondly, remember that choice, while seemingly illusion, is not entirely. I think a lot of people take the Merovingian's words at face value and simply accept it as truth, rather than questioning the source, though we feel free to question the Oracle and everyone else with much scrutiny. The Merovingian is not the main character, nor is he the source of wisdom in the films. He never was. In my mind, it was his way of thinking that was the illusion. He claimed that everything was just a bunch of causality, and yet throughout M2 and M3 a whole bunch of "unexpected" results came his way. But he maintains his composure and smugness, to be sure.

Neo has several choices, and I think I'll disagree with Myunata on the idea that Neo starts to really choose when he gets to M3, although I definitely see your point and perhaps agree with it to some extent.

In M1, Neo has to make a choice. He knows he's the One. He may not verbally say it, and he may even physically betray this revelation. But as the movie goes on, he knows that he's got the gift. But he's very reluctant to even begin to use it. He very subtly turns the gift on in several key moments in the film. The dojo fight when he thoroughly beats Morhpeus after much goading. The escape scene when Neo watches Morpheus get captured. He has choices to make. He chooses at those moments to believe. He chooses his own death over Morpheus' death. Not just because the Oracle says so. In fact, she never tells him in M1 to go after him. She simply tells him the consequences. Death. Loss. Machine victory.

In M2, I will agree that for much of the film Neo is struggling on what he must "choose" to do. He does for much of the film just follow orders, as the Merovingian points out. He's extremely uncertain of what's going on. He has Superman powers, but there is no focal point, no central villain to focus on. Even Smith isn't really a "focal" point to victory. He's the nemesis to be sure, but if Neo had simply "fought" Smith and defeated him in some manner, the war would still continue and humans would eventually die... again.

But he does make choices. He chooses to follow orders. Forget Mero's speech and remember what Morpheus says. Everything begins with choice. M2 is like a continuation of Neo's choice. He chose to be the One, an part of being the One is following the prophecy, which entails basically following precepts and commands from the powers that be. He has to do this. If he doesn't just follow orders, we don't get to M3. It's a process. Regardless, Neo always chooses to believe in these orders and follow them. And the result is always for the good of mankind.

At the architect scene, it's not just a load of bull from the Architect. Remember, the Architect even mentions it himself in M3, "What do you take me for? Human?" He isn't prone to deceit. He may mistate things or overestimate them or simply take them out of context. But he is not human. He detests that mode. Unlike Mero, it is unlikely that he would deliberate fool the One. He balances equations -- not diplomacy.

So when Neo makes the choice to stop following the Prophecy and all the orders... that's a major step. It's a real choice. Neo could have done what all the others did, and simply continue to follow the will of the Machines. Part of this was necessary. The machines ruled... Neo must at least in some form obey them. It's their world now, as Smith said, not humanity's. At least not at the present.

It doesn't matter if your choices suck or are bleak. Dying, being neglectful, simply not doing anything... all of those are choices. And while Neo's list of choices and possible outcomes all pretty much sucked, they were still choices.

It also follows religious examples as well. Take Jesus. You could argue that he's just another automaton. But you could also argue that he was a man who truly made a choice to save mankind, even if that choice involved following the will of another. "Taking orders." Even when you follow orders... you're making a choice. Don't think so? Look at small children. They either obey their parents... or they don't.

msunyata

  

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omega:

"Be specific...

"That thread is full of junk..."

Is it? I didn't know you posted in it.

Whitelaugh

msunyata

omega

  

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So many posts, I must be correct!
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msunyata wrote:

omega:

"Be specific...

"That thread is full of junk..."

Is it? I didn't know you posted in it.

Whitelaugh

msunyata



Your arguments are so compelling... Actually this type of reasoning you use to justify all of your ideas....

...Even machines can see that we are already dead...
msunyata

  

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Well, Mr. Ellipsis, I am happy that you see justification of my posts. Seeing as how we are dealing with the interpretation or reading of a text, one must justify his statements continuously -- even though many around here don't.

So I thank you.

Smile

msunyata

THE_FIRST_ONE

dont bother with the sequels  

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So many posts, I must be correct!
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you are seriously wasting your time trying to dissect the sequels. they really dont make sense.
look at my post that the matrix is a clever trick.
and you will find that they are a pile of garbage.
also check out my trinity theory, in the symbolism and religion part of this forum.
it is the truth of the trinity..

really i do know what i am talking about. dont watch reloaded and revolutions..
you will find that i am correct.

by all means, decipher the first movie

free your minds

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