»MATRIX REVOLUTIONS EATS ITS OWN FANS COUNTERPOINT«

Here's my explaination. It goes mostly toe-to-toe with the disgruntled-ness expressed on the site's main page. Here be.


In Order:

“Matrix Imploded
• Take the speech of the Architect. A masterpiece of filmmaking. During months his words were dissected in matrix forums. "This is the 6th time we will destroy Zion".
Did this have ANY effect on REVOLUTIONS? None.
What would differ if Neo hadn't gone to the Architect? Not much. Smith would have spread and Neo could have gone to the machine god directly.”
This is not true. Things would have differed greatly. Trinity would not have died for the first time, and Neo would not have known the importance of Choice. This would have impacted the rest of the series from that point on in dangerously unpredictable ways. One scenario, he dies in the sentinel attack because he has not touched the Source. Another, he miraculously survives that and goes through the rest of Revolutions. He dies in the sentinel attacks again because he did not CHOOSE to take the Logos. Or, even if he did, another occurrence could be that he dies while fighting Smith, dies while hooked into Zion’s pirate signal to the Matrix, and thus dies meaninglessly. Or he somehow makes it to the Deus Ex Machina and dies while fighting Smith, dies giving his all and dies before being absorbed, so leaving Smith to corrupt the rest of the Matrix, and eventually Zion as he planned to.
• “Persephone says about the Merovingian: "The Merovingian was once like Neo". Months of discussions followed. Was he a former One?
Effect on REVOLUTIONS? None. But why did she say it then? Because the Merovingian LOVED her once? How trivial can it get?”
Hate to break it to you. Not every line you see in the trailers has a deeper meaning. Otherwise we’d have a lot more brain-food movies out there.
“In MATRIX RELOADED the Kid brings Neo a spoon.
Wow, a message.
Effect on REVOLUTIONS? None. It could have been a fork. [Sarcarsm.]”
It wasn’t meant to have an effect. Come on. You know where the spoon came from. It’s not a message from Kid, (even stated in the scene), but a message from a child. Another potential for the One title, in fact. “There is no spoon”? Ring a bell?

“IN FACT NO SINGLE QUESTION (from MATRIX 1 and MATRIX 2) HAS BEEN ANSWERED: “

I’ll work on this now.

• “The machines have powerful weapons and highly advanced machinery but have to dig/ fight Zionites for 100 years and cannot get their energy from above the clouds?
Not answered.
• Why did the machines invent the matrix simulation at all? All they need to cut a few nerves in the brain to make the bodies helpless.
• Why are most whites the bad guys?
Not answered.
• Why do the heroes wear sunglasses and leather?
Pure gloss? Stylish bloat?
• How could Zion be destroyed and repopulated already 5 times? What happened with all the debris? An important question dealing about whether Zion is real or just another rebootable simulation.
Not answered.
• Why is Trinity Trinity? What's so three-ish about her? The Wachowski said that every name was chosen very carefully.
Was it? She has a side role (who hasn't?) and dies.”
In order of appearance:
1. The machines can’t go above the clouds to harvest energy. EMP messes them up. And what do you get when you go into storm clouds? Electricity. As seen in Revolutions. Now, why don’t their weapons work? Why didn’t they attack sooner? Perhaps because of this:
The Architect explained that the One MUST re-enter the source. In order for there to be a One, there must be someone to either draw him out of the Matrix as Morpheus did, or some way to think outside of the Matrix, as the first One was reputed to have done. And would mild-mannered Thomas A. Anderson have found out that he was a One in that time? Without Morpheus to push him? I think not. Either he would be taken into service by the Agents, perhaps made into one, or he would have been killed, as Morpheus predicted.
So, if that happened, the system (or, precisely, Smith) would have taken itself apart. Zion NEEDED to be there, Neo NEEDED to be drawn from the Matrix, and all that happened was MEANT to happen.

2. Why the Matrix at all? This has been speculated on. Over and over.
The simple answer is that the machines are AI. As such, they would need more input, more real Intelligence to learn, mimic, and become more efficient designs.
3. Why are most white guys the bad ones in the movie? Because there are more white people in America than others. That’s just the way it is. Aren’t the Wachowski’s white? I doubt there’s a big message behind this one.
4. Why do they wear leather and sunglasses? Because it’s more anonymous. Would an Agent be more likely to identify “the female in the red Green Day t-shirt and blue flare-ankle jeans”, or the relatively camouflaged “Long leather coat and… in black?”
5. How could Zion be repopulated? Depends. Either what the Architect said is true, and in the wake of the Sentinels their equipment was left in moderately useable/repairable state, for the reasons set in my answer #1, or the humans were very, very ingenious in their thieving from the machines.
6. Why TRInity? That’s easy. Trinity plays three roles: A guide for Neo into the real world. A behind-the-scenes guardian for him (i.e., the Merovingian situation and the life-saving in the original) and his up-front wife.
“Instead of answering questions, the movie raises more:
• Is Neo really dead at the end of the movie?
• Is the Merovingian dead?
• What will happen with the girl Sati?
• Are all humans dead after Smith took over them? Has the refreshed matrix any humans at all?
• ... “
Instead of answering, it creates more. Yes. No. Both.
Is Neo really dead? Depends on your definition of dead. Is he gone from the world? Yes. Is his influence gone? Maybe. If you believe that Seraph is a past One, (ala his fighting even with Neo), then Neo will reappear as a program.
Is the Mero dead? Who cares? In all likelihood, he was taken over by Smith, just as other programs were. And was freed, just as others were. So is he in this case dead? No. But after being taken over by Smith, having no necessity of more programs (less system, less control, less controlling programs, less exiles), AND ALSO being saved by Neo in the end (as he probably would have heard upon his release), he should SERIOUSLY reconsider his involvement in the Zionites’ lives.
What will happen to Sati? Or was it Sehti? Well, I got the impression that she was either an Oracle replacement/backup, as she can create sunrises, or she was an assistant in training.
Are all humans dead? No. The Oracle and Seraph woke up. They aren’t so different than humans, are they? And as the Architect alludes to at the end, the ones who want to be released will be. This suggests that there are humans left in the world. The Architect keeps his word… what do you think he is, human?

And just because the Matrix-Within-a-Matrix isn’t mentioned, doesn’t mean it isn’t real. The Architect wasn’t mentioned in the first one. And the speech at the end of that one tells the truth: “I’m not here to tell you how it will end. I’m here to tell you how it will begin.” The comics, “Matrix Online”, and others will most likely have answers and info you never thought of.

“Smith meets Sati and Seraph. What happens then?”

What do you think happens? He absorbs them. This is evident when Smith-Sehti brings the phrase about cookies out of her mind to tell the Oracle.

If inferential logic can be applied to the fiction, it makes as much sense as you want it to.

Great post. Cleared many things up for me as I hope it will for others. Thank you for sharing.

Quote:

• How could Zion be destroyed and repopulated already 5 times? What happened with all the debris? An important question dealing about whether Zion is real or just another rebootable simulation. Not answered. • Why is Trinity Trinity? What's so three-ish about her? The Wachowski said that every name was chosen very carefully. Was it? She has a side role (who hasn't?) and dies. ”Are all humans dead? No. The Oracle and Seraph woke up. They aren’t so different than humans, are they? And as the Architect alludes to at the end, the ones who want to be released will be. This suggests that there are humans left in the world. The Architect keeps his word… what do you think he is, human?

if you mean recreated in the last 100 years, it wasn't 100 years is how long the 6th matrix has existed

and Trinity was spposed to represent the three of them (morpheus, keanu and Trinity)

they were all released just like the oracle, sati, and seraph

MATRIX_MATT wrote:

Great post. Cleared many things up for me as I hope it will for others. Thank you for sharing.

No, thank you ^_^

YOU WRECKED THE WEBSITE DUDE!i had thought of some of your ideas but havent been bothered to post them,This was much more thorough though.Excellent!

good points A_Rincewind,

I was really disappointed by how the movies ended too... a lot of stuff seemed not to fit after the first movie, but I thought maybe that’s because they had to turn a trilogy into a single film... or maybe the studio “hampered their creativity” too much...

When I found out the W brothers pretty much got their way with the last 2 films, I was like... what the hell? The 1st one was better anyway... Many things in the stories don’t mean anything... they’re there cuz it looks cool (a lot of people will argue against that).

It’s like asking “why did Superman wear tights and a cape?” cuz it looked cool at the time. You could try to dig as deep as you like, but the simplest and most superficial explanations work best in the matrix.

I still think the biggest hole in the story is about using crops of humans to generate power. It doesn’t make sense to use humans, given all the trouble the machines have to go through with Zion and the Matrix, when they could very easily and efficiently use geothermal or fusion. I thought that in the 3rd movie this would be cleared up and we’d finally find out why the machines REALLY use humans... but the movies and the Animatrix, really push the idea of using humans to generate electricity so... I think the W brothers thought it was a really “cool & twisted” idea and that’s that.

Okay, mayhap I didn't explain quite right.
The stuff in my previous posts:
The White font represents Direct Quotes from

Quote:

Neo would not have known the importance of Choice.

Sure, but what choice does he actually make? I've hashed this over elsewhere on this site. Throughout M2 he does as he is told: "Find the Oracle!", "Find the Keymaker!" "Find the Room in which resides the Architect!" And off he goes. He has as much choice as your cursor icon.

In M3 he simply charges into the heart of the machine city and fights Smith (again!). For there to be "choice", there must be viable alternatives. What were his alternatives?

Quote:

The Architect explained that the One MUST re-enter the source. In order for there to be a One, there must be someone to either draw him out of the Matrix as Morpheus did, or some way to think outside of the Matrix, as the first One was reputed to have done.

The Architect made a great speech, but none of what he said was set up earlier. He could be just making it all up, you know. The "Source" is arbitrarily entered into the movie. Neo needs powers in the real world? No problem, the Source is with him! It's as if Gandalf at the siege of Minas Tirath said, "Oh yeah, I forgot, we have a nuclear missile buried under the white tree--let's fire it at Mordor." End of saga.

Quote:

Is the Mero dead? Who cares?

Well, part of good movie making is that you have characters that the audience cares about, or loves to "boo" (e.g., Darth Vader). Having set up the Merovingian and his wife in M2 the film makers have something of an obligation to do something interesting with them in M3.

Quote:

The comics, “Matrix Online”, and others will most likely have answers and info you never thought of.

Maybe, but having to chase answers all over pop culture detracts from the movie experience. I paid $9 to see M3 and expected some answers!

Quote:

Neo: "Tell me how I stopped 4 sentinels by thinking it..." Oracle: "The power of the One extends beyond this world. It reaches from here all the way back to where it came from: The Source."

That's all the explanation we are given. It's as if the Oracle had said, "It was all a bad dream." Uh huh.

This is a critical plot turn, and yet we get one line of dialog. Now compare this to M1 with the extensive explanation of The Matrix, including visuals and training programs.

What is worse is that the characters in the movie do not question this. As I have ranted about all over this site, even though Neo now has a power that can allow the Zionites to destroy the sentinel invasion, it does not even become an issue. Roland still sees Neo as a nut case. Morpheus does not rise up and say, "Aha, I was right about Neo."

Nope, they go on as if nothing happened.

Gnostic wrote:

Quote: Neo would not have known the importance of Choice. Sure, but what choice does he actually make? I've hashed this over elsewhere on this site. Throughout M2 he does as he is told: "Find the Oracle!", "Find the Keymaker!" "Find the Room in which resides the Architect!" And off he goes. He has as much choice as your cursor icon. In M3 he simply charges into the heart of the machine city and fights Smith (again!). For there to be "choice", there must be viable alternatives. What were his alternatives?

Good point. People think that Neo actually had a choice... Right...
Mirovingian tells us: Choice is an illusion created by those with power for those without...
Oracle has power... She commands Neo as her own puppet... HE does exactly what she tells him to do...

By the way, Oracle "chose" to be absorbed by Smith...

I have a point about AI.
Even if machines needed additional brain power, there are very simple surgical procedures to make sure the humans will never be able to use their bodies, thus never be able to escape the powerplant. All you need to do is pinch several nerve endings or mess a little with human spine...
Thus the machines will turn all the humans into steven hawkins - lots of brain power - no body power...

I would like to dissagree with the "fact' that machines can't fly through the atmosphere to collect solar energy rather than use the human battery. This is wrong. The machines very easily could. If they really wanted to they could use a rocket system which would propell them through the atmosphere faster than the storm could kill the projectile. Or they could have designed a ship that would effectivly conduct any electricity that was shocked. If you or I were to wear a 100% conductive suit make of steel and with one hand grab a 1,000,000,000 volt wire and with the other hand the wire to complete the circut - I garuntee u - u will be ok. You nor I would be shocked. Electricity takes the path of least resistance and that would be the metal as it is more conductive than ur skin. Thus the machines had an alternative to human fuel.

I would also like to sujest a possibility of how zion was recreated 5 times prior. 1) matrix in a matrix scene and they just make "backup copies" of a few peeps and preload their minds with a past of the machines version of history. 2) very similar except instead of a matrix in a matrix there is only one matrix and they clone all the humans they nead and preload the history. 3) suports Rincewind's human enguinuity (sp)

The oracle I find to be perplexing but Revaltions does answer some questions. Like whose side is she on. The orcale is on neither side. She needed a stalemate and that is just what she got. The oracle originally concieved the idea of the matrix - a false world exactly like the one we have now. However as all machines are - the matrix must be perfectly efficent (operate at 100% - matrix was like 99.9%). Which is what both the architect and the oracle try to accomplish. The arcitect would rather destroy the .1% ineffiecny in the matrix. To perfect the matric, she (the oracle) needs to help the human rebel force. Neither one could really win or the oracle would be screwed. The humans win and the machines die and she has no true insurance of the next day. Machines win and the .1% is gone and so is her purpose. Then she would have to return to the source and no one wants to that (like it seems she does now). So the Oracle needed the humans to only tie the machines. This gives her the greatest leverage in the machine world. The machines - despite their claim to integrity and honesty will be preparing for another war. The oracle will be the best tool the machines have. Therefore during the trilogy she plays both sides off to her benefit, but in a sequal I would suspect that she is machine biased. some would ask why would the architect be so mean as to try to sabatoge the oracle by trying to destroy the humans - well he is jealous. There is a competition between the oracle and the architect over who will controll the matrix and the architect does not want to lose.

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The great and powerful Oracle. We meet at last. I suppose you've been expecting me, right? The all-knowing Oracle is never surprised. How can she be, she knows everything. But If that's true, then why is she here? If she knew I was coming, why didn't she leave? *sweeps plate of cookies off table* Maybe you knew I was going to do that, maybe you didn't. If you did, that means you baked those cookies and set that plate right there deliberately, purposefully. Which means you're sitting there also deliberately, purposefully.
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Obviously, all along Oracle wanted to be absorbed by Smith, to make him more powerful... So she is not all good, is she?

The oracle is on neither side - during the trilogy thus far

She is absorbed so she can give neo that "everything that has a begining has an end" speach through smith during neo and smiths fight. That was playing on the side for the humans. Without that message neo would have fought till he died and not been absorbed. That is why the orcale was obsorbed.

A_Rincewind:

You took a more direct approach to critiquing the webmaster and his posts; I took a more indirect one:

could you please explain what a molecular replicators is... becuase unless the storm is made of nanobots there is no way the storm contains them however is the robots need them I missing the why...

In the case that the strom contains micro/nano sized robots that would dismantle stuff... couldn't they just fire some emp's into the sky and bring 'em all down?

I can't explain. All I can do is point you to points of interest or relevance in the "Matrix" saga:

1.) The aforementioned script for "The Matrix Revolutions." I quoted the entirety of the relevant passage.

2.) The director's commentary for the two-part Animatrix episode "The Second Renassiance." If I'm not mistaken, Maeda-san touches a bit upon the replicators...

msunyata

msunyata.

The only choice(?) Neo has in the M3 is to go to the machine city.
He has a VISION of the pipes leading into the city. IT IS NOT HIS CHOICE! He follows his vision... Who feeds him the info? Nobody knows...
If he chooses to go to defend Zion he will try to knock out the sentinels - he'll handle a couple and he will be back at the trainstation... Zion will end up destroyed. We have no clue what would happen to all the people at the powerplant.

Not only did we get no answers about Mirovingian, I beleive that the Mirovingian scene in M3 is the lamest scene in the trilogy and what happened to the twins?
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again msunyata:

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The great and powerful Oracle. We meet at last. I suppose you've been expecting me, right? The all-knowing Oracle is never surprised. How can she be, she knows everything. But If that's true, then why is she here? If she knew I was coming, why didn't she leave? *sweeps plate of cookies off table* Maybe you knew I was going to do that, maybe you didn't. If you did, that means you baked those cookies and set that plate right there deliberately, purposefully. Which means you're sitting there also deliberately, purposefully.

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All she wanted to do, is to make sure that both of her kids have adequate powers at the end... She said: one way or another this war is going to end and she still chose to stay and be absorbed by smith... She didn't do it just for a speech at the end of the movie....

"He has a VISION of the pipes leading into the city. IT IS NOT HIS CHOICE!"

In actuality, he chooses to finally look inward and listen to what he himself has to say (which, again, I think is one of the most centrals points of the entire trilogy)...

"Who feeds him the info?"

Himself.

"If he chooses to go to defend Zion [...] Zion will end up destroyed."

Again, I was simply listing alternatives, whether they be desirable or not. Furthermore, the films operate on a sense of, if you will, fate. I would not confuse that with a strict and logical sense of alternative, or the lack thereof.

"...I beleive that the Merovingian scene in 'M3' is the lamest scene in the trilogy..."

Seeing as how that's your opinion, that's absolutely, perfectly fine.

"...and what happened to the twins?"

Died in "Reloaded."

And you misunderstood my previous comment in regards to your statements about the Oracle. "That's not obvious at all" was not directed towards the first part of your statment, but the latter...

msunyata

The oracle was absorbed to give neo the "everything has a begingind has an end" message during the fight. Without this message neo would have been killed and smith would have been the god of the matrix. Why would the oracle want for this? Well seeing as she is in the matrix... that is a good reason. Besides if u read my post up top a bit - the oracle is playing off e/1 to be the most important in the next matrix. Without a matrix what good have been all of her efforts.

I begining to believe that some parts of the matrix world exist for the sake of existing. Like the human battery - there is no doubt in my mind that a way around that big ass scarry storm exists. The only reason it is there is to give the robots an excuse for being so evil.

Did you ever think that Oracle could simply tell Neo one-on-one:
Listen kid, everything that has a beginning has an end...

She didn't have to become part of smith just to give that stupid speech

However,
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Smith: Mr. Anderson, welcome back. We missed you. You like what I've done with the place?
Neo: It ends tonight.
Smith: I know it does - I've seen it. That's why the rest of me is just going to enjoy the show - we already know that I'm the one that beats you.
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He certainly needs powers of Oracle to see this...
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Smith: Can you feel it, Mr. Anderson, closing in on you? Well, I can. I really should thank you for it, after all, it was your life that taught me the purpose of all life. The purpose of life is to end.

Is this Oracle talking to Neo? Maybe this is the main point that she has to tell Neo - the purpose of life is to end..
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Smith: Wait... I've seen this. This is it, this is the end. Yes, you were laying right there, just like that, and I... I... I stand here, right here, I'm... I'm supposed to say something. I say... Everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo.
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Is this the big-ass speech the oracle is giving to Neo?
C'mon

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Smith: Wait... I've seen this. This is it, this is the end. Yes, you were laying right there, just like that, and I... I... I stand here, right here, I'm... I'm supposed to say something. I say... Everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo.
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is not a big speach but it why the oracle was absorbed - w/e - b/c if not neo would have fought to the death and not been absorbed and not neutralized smith... that is why she was absorbed - if she did not have the chance to remind neo that "everything has a begining and an end" neo would have chosen to fight forever. Then the oracle would never of gotten what she wants.

She didn't have to be absorbed just for that - if you really think so, you must really be narrow minded.

Smith was as much of her child as Neo is... Don't you see things this way?

msunyata wrote:

matrix-explained.com... msunyata

Be specific...

That thread is full of junk...