»There must be a matrix within a matrix«

for those who believe that zion is a matrix within a matrix i ask this

why would the machines seek to destroy the inhabitants of zion of they are being controlled(believe zion to be "real") and as such are given power to the machines

it would be akin to sending loads of agents into the 1999 matrix in order to kill loads of people...for no apparent reason

face facts....there is no matrix within a matrix...and its all explained in the films if you bother to watch and listen

"your life is the remainder of the sum of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix...an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts have been unable to resolve(or whatever)"

neo's abilities are because he is the tool used to balance that equation...this equation was created in the source..."the power of the one extends all the way from this world back to where it was created....the source"

so neo is connected to the source...so are all the sentinals etc

hence he can see them after he is blind yet he cant see trinity or the logos...after the crash...because they are not connected to the source...because they are not in another matrix

I believe in MwM, and none of those arguments from you" anomaly" convinced me eitherway...
Just one question for you to think about: If you think that Trinity and the Logos are blind to neo cuz' they are not part of the source, they are not connected to it, then: Do you think neo would be able to see "all" of the reality of that supposed matrix BEFORE being unplugged from it? I believe not, if it was a matrix, then he would be still part of it and the system can send him any electrical signals to his brian, even though he is the one or a god in there....
Just to make you think a bit...

I think the anomoly proved exactly why Zion would be real. The most convincing argument being why exactly would the machines push the agents so hard in the 1999 version of the Matrix. I understand that they can't just be half-assed in their approach because then those free minds who jack in would become suspicious. And clearly, all Neo sees are those things connected directly to the source, which excludes the Logos, and trinity.

It seems "el escogido" that you did not read my last post...disapointing, but not unexpected.

I just can't agree with your theory PN. Neo is a completely different case from everyone else (thus an anomoly.) The same rules thast apply to others don't apply to him, so using him in your argument really can't prove anything in answering this question.

Ok, I understand your point, but all of your and everyone else's theory of zion being real makes Neo seem a lot more machine than human....he is an anomaly but "irrevocabily remains human" ,thus he can not be considered as a "super special case" as you stated before.

Well this is the thing. Is Neo really human? I know the countless amount of things that were said in the trilogy about Neo, but really think about that one. Tank even says in the original Matrix "Ten hours straight, he's a machine."
In reality, all those who are or have been connected to the matrix are partly machine, just look at the plugs all over their bodies.
Remember, Neo can do what he does because he is The One, and ultimately has special priveliges others don't. If he's the only person besides any other machine to be connected directly to the source why couldn't he be part machine? Even when his body is being dragged away at the end you can see an aura of shining gold light from his body, just like the machines have, which leads me to believe 1) he is part machine & 2) his mind is still alive.
Regardless, again you can't use Neo to prove that Zion is part of another matrix.

Now I get it! I'm sorry, let me drop off the MwM theory right now...
If you believe Neo being a machine, then that makes more sense to me on why you constrantly can not accept the theory....Nice of you for buying the dialoge from Tank on M1...seems like you just can't concider it being a metaphore....well believe what you will....no one is gonna stop you...

there is that question again...what is neo

is he human or not

"your life is the sum of the remainder of an unbalanced equation"

this would suggest that he exists or rather was created in order to be a "shell" for the code which balances the equation

this would suggest that he has been "the one" since he was born

"youve known it your whole life...there is something wrong with the world...you dont know what it is...but its there...like a splinter in your mind...driving you mad"

would also back up this hypothesis

but the architect also said the line

"you remain irrevocably human"

so what is dominant

i beleive that as the matrix saga went on then the code started to become more dominant than the human

this is shown by the evolution of his abilities as the films progressed

the machines were aware that this is what happens to all the people who have been shells for the code and this is what had to be controlled

the "ones" couldnt be physically forced to the source because they can kick the agents asses...

so in comes the story of the saviour of the human race..."go to the source and you will end the war and save zion" as perpetrated by the oracle

i have said all this before however...and im just repeating myself but it explains the manifestations of neo's abilities

he made a different choice than all the previous "ones" when confronted by the architect

all the others chose to go to the source they were "disseminated...reinserting the prime programme"....meaning that the memory and experiences that the code had gathered were wiped and plugged back into the matrix by way of another shell (human)...and the whole cycle began again

with neo however...because of his choice led his code to evolve and gather information more than when in his predeccessors....

the abilities then evolved to the point of concious manipulation of the connection to the source....

this is what the machines were trying to avoid by luring the one to the source

My point exactly...I completely agree with you.

thank you

people say....'when neo hacks into the matrix without a link' or whateva, how do u mean, i dont remember anything like that?

it was the part when neo was in mobil ave station

although this wasnt technically in the matrix...when he was rescued by trinity and morpheus he was taken to the oracle...this was in the matrix...but neo was still not plugged in at this point...hence link couldnt see him in the car(were reading something but we couldnt tell what it was)

i believe what they were reading was the anomaly code itself...the peice of code inserted into neo when he was first plugged into the matrix...the piece of code needed to finalise an unbalanced equation that needed to be solved in order for the matrix to actually exist

since computers cannot round numbers up or down(as when a calculator gives the answer 9.9999999999E....at some point this must be rounded up by 0.00000000E1) this is neo purpose...and the code that allows him to do this also allows him to connect to the matrix,the sentinals etc...as the code was made in the source...and as the oracle says..."the power of the one extends all the way from this world back to where it came from...the source...where you must go...where the path of the one ends"

this means that neo can connect to anything else connected to the source...

it is only over time and through experience that neo becomes aware of this connection(including to smith)...and over even more time is actually able to conciouslly exploit this connection(hence he can blow up sentinals)

the machines have to avoid this at all costs by retrieving the code from each of its hosts before it can evolve to these abilities...they then wipe the memory and insert it into someone else

"the purpose of the one is now to return to the source....disseminate and reinsert the prime programme"

so all the "neo can connect to the matrix while unplugged" stuff stems from this aspect of the story

at least...this is my opinion...there are about a million other explanations on this site...but mines is the only one thats right

o yea i remember that bit, but as you sed it wasnt exactly the matrix, but still he did go into the matrix....i think that confused me, and i then wondered why the hell he was in the matrix but we wer never shown him jackin in....i think your theory is pretty goood who helped me answer my question before nice one

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since computers cannot round numbers up or down(as when a calculator gives the answer 9.9999999999E....at some point this must be rounded up by 0.00000000E1) this is neo purpose...and the code that allows him to do this also allows him to connect to the matrix,the sentinals etc...as the code was made in the source...and as the oracle says..."the power of the one extends all the way from this world back to where it came from...the source...where you must go...where the path of the one ends"

I like this and agree - But I think about it a little differently. - the 0.000000000E1 part of the code is the SUM OF NEO + SMITH. The proportions can vary accordingly but the SUM of the parts equals the required code.[/quote]

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since computers cannot round numbers up or down(as when a calculator gives the answer 9.9999999999E....at some point this must be rounded up by 0.00000000E1) this is neo purpose...and the code that allows him to do this also allows him to connect to the matrix,the sentinals etc...as the code was made in the source...and as the oracle says..."the power of the one extends all the way from this world back to where it came from...the source...where you must go...where the path of the one ends"

I like this and agree - But I think about it a little differently. - the 0.000000000E1 part of the code is the SUM OF NEO + SMITH. The proportions can vary accordingly but the SUM of the parts equals the required code.[/quote]

The answer is CHOICE. In order for the humans to make a choice and stay in either the 1999 Matrix or Zion Matrix both have to be believeable to the people who choose them. For the tiny fraction that rejects the 1999 Matrix, the next level has to be horrible enough to justify the splinter in the mind that they felt. These people are pessimists, they want to believe the world is a crap pile so they get Zion.

As for the machines. To a virtual mind all reality is virtual - from Matriculated. It's all the same to the machines - one big GAME. So in both levels they actually have to do something PHYSICAL to accomplish their objectives. You don't just push a button to destroy something in a game. You engage the player in some sort of combat, chase or other physical activity.

To understand why Neo let Smith take him over you have to understand why Donnie Darko chose to go to bed and get killed at the end. He realized that the life he was living wasn't reality and to set things right he had to play his part. Neo realized the same thing. You can't control anything, you can just do what you were designed to do.