»NEO HAS TWO CONSIOUSNESSES«

an interesting idea came to mind when reading a post on a forum here.

Neo seems to always know about the matrix. He knows about morphues. How is this?

Could it be possible that the machines can program peoples brains? The machines could have planted this question about the matrix and morpheus into his brain when he was born.
If this is so.. then the machines could in effect, program the minds of the people hooked up to it. Tell them what to think and do.

Could the human brain be a program when hooked up to the matrix? it is "running" in the world of the matrix.

If this is so then to an extent, the brain could be a program in the real world..

thoughts?

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo seems to always know about the matrix. He knows about morphues. How is this

I think of this more an an urban legend that runs among the hacker community in the matrix world. Its kind of like Area 51 or Roswell or the JFK shooting conspiracy. People know something is wrong there and most dont pursue it but some do. That is part of the choice. Some do pursue it like Neo and find the answer.

Funny how when you actually find the truth out you dissapear from the matrix (by getting flushed) so that perpetuates the legend. People must view that as the person got to close to some secret and was "eliminated".

hazzyBO wrote:

Could it be possible that the machines can program peoples brains? The machines could have planted this question about the matrix and morpheus into his brain when he was born. If this is so.. then the machines could in effect, program the minds of the people hooked up to it. Tell them what to think and do.

I think this was the problem with the first matrix. The machines never gave the humans any choice and led them through the matrix by their noses. this is the very essence of what caused massive revolts. At some level everyone felt like they were being led and because humans hold freedom so dearly this was unacceptable to them. Once the system was designed with choice it was easer for humans to accept the program. No only the ones that pursue the choice are the problem and they have built the matrix in such a way as to handle them (control) so the rebels never get out of hand.

HazzyBO wrote:

Could the human brain be a program when hooked up to the matrix? it is "running" in the world of the matrix. If this is so then to an extent, the brain could be a program in the real world

I think this is somewhat true. After all you see Neo being programmed to use kung fu and Trinity programmed to fly a helicopter. I dont think the brain is a program though. It is a processor with built in storage. the processor equates to the consciousness and the storage equates to memory.

So in essence I dont think the machines can program you what do say and do and think. But they can load programs into a mind that the humans can run in the consciousness (processor). This is what the matrix is. They were going to load Cypher back into the matrix and wipe out his memory and give him a new existence. After they did that what he did with that life and those memories was his to control (process).


Starbuck

Quote:

think this was the problem with the first matrix. The machines never gave the humans any choice and led them through the matrix by their noses. this is the very essence of what caused massive revolts. At some level everyone felt like they were being led and because humans hold freedom so dearly this was unacceptable to them. Once the system was designed with choice it was easer for humans to accept the program.

Starbuck Is right on target. this is my idea on Neo in the equation of the programming of the matrix. The anomaly is choice. The Human race as a whole will always, even if its subconsious will choose to be free. Neo is the result of this anomaly. He is the one who will stand up for and try to free The Human race.

I have ansered my own question "can the human brain be programmed" and the answer is no. They can be given memories and thoughts, but what makes them different from programs is that they are human. They can't be "programmed" to follow the system. They have to choose.

Quote:

I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control.

This is the arcitect explaining what he was unable to eliminate (choice) but still keep under the control of the machines.#

thoughts?

Architect: ...It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One?

the one is designed?

ah

architect wrote:

Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication [BASE], a contingent [POSSIBLE] affirmation [TRUTH] that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One

.

Your predacessors were (by the design of the matrix) based on a simular predication (paramaters built into the matrix to identify the anomaly)

The matrix was designed to seek out and identify this anomaly based on certain possible truths (parameters). . The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. “Possible truth” because not every one will develop the level of attachment that “The One” develops. So the matrix is designed to search out individuals that can, will and have developed these attachments and guide them to the source. This design goes hand in hand with the abilities of “The One”. The deeper the attachment the more pronounced his abilities are in the matrix. Neo was different. His attachment was to an individual and obviously deeper than any previous “ones” attachment. The architect and The Merovingian both expressed surprise as his abilities. He was obviously different. This leads us to another conclusion. Positive emotions like love, etc have a direct relation to your abilities in the matrix. The deeper your feelings run the deeper your commitment to your cause and the deeper your abilities are.

All individuals have a certain level of attachment and commitment to cause. Based on that commitment/attachment each individual can achieve different levels of freedom in the matrix. Trinity is dedicated to Morpheus, Morpheus is dedicated to the Oracle and the Prophesy, Niobi is dedicated to protecting Zion. If M1 you saw Mouse pretty easily defeated. He relied on the weapons of the matrix more than his own faith, commitment and love. It led him to an early death. Neo is dedicated to Trinity to the point that Neo is willing to transcend death to be with her. That level of commitment has caused him to cross a threshold of attachment that in turn identifies him as “The One”. Trinity also has that level of attachment to Neo so why is she also not a “One/anomaly”? It’s because Neo not only has that commitment to Trinity but he also has a profound belief in himself that Trinity does not have in herself. The Oracles sign above the kitchen door is very profound – Know Thy Self. Neo knows and believes. Its that level of love, commitment and a belief in himself that Identifies Neo as “The One”. The ability to sacrifice anything, the belief that that sacrifice will cause change and the knowledge that you will have the will for that sacrifice are the most dangerous aspects of Neo. It is a set of qualities that is rare but does emerge in each version of the matrix and it threatens the system itself. It is the human incarnation of the matrix’s destabilizing anomaly that is inherent in every conceivable matrix.

What do you think?

Starbuck

All of these ideas are good.

We should post a forum with all these ideas. Create one unified theory which the magority of people will agree with.

We still gotta clarify some stuff though....

rock on. what do you feel still needs Clairified?

Oscargabrielp is working on a unified theory idea also. Maybe we should all work together?

What do you think.

Starbuck

Yea we should all work together.

I think what we should do is go over all the aspects of all the movies, all events and use what we have already got to create one main thoery which makes sence.

what do you guys think?

We already have some pretty good ideas running through this forum, and others, so we shuld combind them all and i think we will be most of the way there...

We still gotta clarify some of the ideas though. And some parts we are gonna disagree on too...

but if we clear up these ideas then we will have an awsome univied theory

OK,

Shoot with the points we need to clairify? What still bothers you?

Starbuck

Neo Stopping the sentinals, (we have different ideas)

The Anomaly ( the anomaly occurs because of choice right?)

ahhh i gotta go..! ill get back to this later

ok here is my refined theory. I want to know what you guys think and tell me about it. This took me quite a while to get clarified but i think it makes quite a lot of sence.

First of all the basics. What is the source.

The source is the machine mainframe. This is what the oricle tells neo. A mainframe is a central processing Unit (CPU). This CPU is the consious of the machines. The machine consious is different to that of a humans consious. It is universal. It runs through everything connected to the machines. The machines think as a whole, not as individuals. The arcitect and the Oricle are programs created by the souce to run as part of the system.

When people are plugged into the matrix, their brains exchange nueral processes with that of the machine processes.

After experimenting on the human brain the machines learned how they could connect the human brain to their brain (mainframe) to use as power for the matrix. (this was in 2nd renaissance)

Therefore the thoughts and processes in the human brain can interchangable with that of the machines. (how else can humans live inside a digital world without exchanging neural (analog) processes with that digital system?)

Neo when hooked up to the matrix is part of that digital world. His real world consious is changed into digital consiousness.

Neos life is the result of an anomaly caused by choice inside the matrix. "the anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." - Arcitect.

Because of an anomaly inside the matrix, Neo has change things which no one else can.

Him being "the one" is just the system controlling Neo, who threatens the system, with the "prophecy"

This leads me nicely to my next point. What is the matrix? The matrix is a digital world made with code. The Matrix isn't a program though. Its always changing on how its inhabitants change it. It runs from the machine mainframe. The matrix code is powered by the processes of the machine mainframe (source). This source runs under everything of the machine world. It is the fundimental part of machine awareness.

Ok thats the basics out of the way!

"The power of the one leads back to the source" - Oricle.

When meeting with the arcitect, Neo chooses to break from the control of the machines. He is now out of the system of control of the machines. This leaves the machines in a bit of a pickle because as the arciect sais - "that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself". Neo is no unchecked. Out of the wrelm of a prophecy.

Neos power is now allowed to grow.

When entering back into the matrix after his encounter with the arcitect, Neo is focused on one thing. Saving Trinity. He has never focused this hard ever before on bending the rules of the matrix to fly faster than he ever has. He needs to get to trinity in time. Because of this extreme focus, Neo reaches the source. Neo has focused so hard that he has reached the source (which processes the matrix code obviously because the matrix runs from the machine mainframe).

Neo has now reached his true potential. He has discovered that he he can not only change the matrix, but can also change the processes which run this code (the source). This is how Neo reaches Trinity in time.

Neos Mental processes are now running through the machine processes because both have met. Neo touches the consious of the machines. This means that his processes will now be running through the machine processes. Part of Neo is now inside the source. A mental process of Neo runs through the source. Part of his awareness is incapsulated in the machine consious.

This is where the wachowski brothers lead to the tru potential of the matrix idea.

When Neo stops the sentinals, and sees the golden code. He is mearly interacting with his other part of his awareness. All he has to do is think about stopping them and they stop, because the part of him running through the source can "hack" and change parts of it.

Neo has now, to an extent become psyic. He has a 6th sence. He has a split awareness. This is the true potential of having an idea of machine and human consious connected to each other.


As for Neo arriving at Mobile Ave, the part of him running through the machines was sent there. Neo should of died when stopping the sentinals but he wasn't ready. The machines allow him to live. They send the part of his awareness which runs through the source to Mobile ave. This is now Neos aware state. As aposed to his unconsious state in the real world.

When the trainman sais "so thats what they wanted" He is referring to How the machines actually need Neo to destroy smith. Thats why they saved him when he "should of been dead".

This is my complete theory on the Matrix. I have spent a long time analyising the movies and feel that this is the clearest explination for many of the things that happen in the movies. The Wachowski brothers are geniuses and have given me a very interesting insight to what reality is and the true potential of the human mind through awsome story line ( not to forget the awsome fight scenes and strong religious symbolism portrayed throughout the various mediums)

I would really like to hear what you guys think of this theory cause it took me a long time to compile![/quote]

HazzyBO wrote:

The source is the machine mainframe. This is what the oricle tells neo. A mainframe is a central processing Unit (CPU). This CPU is the consious of the machines. The machine consious is different to that of a humans consious. It is universal. It runs through everything connected to the machines. The machines think as a whole, not as individuals. The arcitect and the Oricle are programs created by the souce to run as part of the system.

The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

HazzyBO wrote:

When people are plugged into the matrix, their brains exchange nueral processes with that of the machine processes. After experimenting on the human brain the machines learned how they could connect the human brain to their brain (mainframe) to use as power for the matrix. (this was in 2nd renaissance) Therefore the thoughts and processes in the human brain can interchangable with that of the machines. (how else can humans live inside a digital world without exchanging neural (analog) processes with that digital system?)

I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo when hooked up to the matrix is part of that digital world. His real world consious is changed into digital consiousness. Neos life is the result of an anomaly caused by choice inside the matrix. "the anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." - Arcitect.

I think this is accurate. Neural impulses in the brain and converted to digital form and interpreted by the Matrix as digital code.

HazzyBO wrote:

Because of an anomaly inside the matrix, Neo has change things which no one else can. Him being "the one" is just the system controlling Neo, who threatens the system, with the "prophecy"

Basically this is correct. My interpretation of it is this:

Quote:

“Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication [BASE], a contingent [POSSIBLE] affirmation [TRUTH] that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One”

The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.

HazzyBO wrote:

This leads me nicely to my next point. What is the matrix? The matrix is a digital world made with code. The Matrix isn't a program though. Its always changing on how its inhabitants change it. It runs from the machine mainframe. The matrix code is powered by the processes of the machine mainframe (source). This source runs under everything of the machine world. It is the fundimental part of machine awareness.

Hmmm… I don’t know about the fact that it is part of the machine consciousness. See above.

HazzyBO wrote:

When meeting with the arcitect, Neo chooses to break from the control of the machines. He is now out of the system of control of the machines. This leaves the machines in a bit of a pickle because as the arciect sais - "that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself". Neo is no unchecked. Out of the wrelm of a prophecy. Neos power is now allowed to grow.

I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

HazzyBO wrote:

When entering back into the matrix after his encounter with the arcitect, Neo is focused on one thing. Saving Trinity. He has never focused this hard ever before on bending the rules of the matrix to fly faster than he ever has. He needs to get to trinity in time. Because of this extreme focus, Neo reaches the source. Neo has focused so hard that he has reached the source (which processes the matrix code obviously because the matrix runs from the machine mainframe).

I would agree with this taking into account his intensity is driven by love and commitment.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo has now reached his true potential. He has discovered that he he can not only change the matrix, but can also change the processes which run this code (the source). This is how Neo reaches Trinity in time. Neos Mental processes are now running through the machine processes because both have met. Neo touches the consious of the machines. This means that his processes will now be running through the machine processes. Part of Neo is now inside the source. A mental process of Neo runs through the source. Part of his awareness is incapsulated in the machine consious. Neo has now, to an extent become psyic. He has a 6th sence. He has a split awareness. This is the true potential of having an idea of machine and human consious connected to each other.

Yes. I would say Neo has transcended the barriers of the Matrix VR environment into the real world and touched the physical consciousness of the machine mainframe. I would say not so much split awareness but and “extended” awareness.

HazzyBO wrote:

As for Neo arriving at Mobile Ave, the part of him running through the machines was sent there. Neo should of died when stopping the sentinals but he wasn't ready. The machines allow him to live. They send the part of his awareness which runs through the source to Mobile ave. This is now Neos aware state. As aposed to his unconsious state in the real world.

I would disagree with this. Neo sent himself to Limbo not the machines. He did not know what to think of or how to handle this new found power. It was so overwhelming that to protect himself from destruction he ended up in Limbo until he could rationalize what he had become. When the Oracle said Neo wasn’t ready for death she was right. He should have died but instead as a self protection from the raw power he experienced he shielded himself in Limbo.

HazzyBO wrote:

When the trainman sais "so thats what they wanted" He is referring to How the machines actually need Neo to destroy smith. Thats why they saved him when he "should of been dead".

I believe the trainman was talking about his recent experience with Trinity, Morpheus and Seraph. Remember just before that they chased the trainman through the tunnels of the underground subway. He never knew what they wanted because he escaped them by jumping in front of the train. When the trainman arrived at Mobil he discovers Neo there. He comments to himself “that’s what they must have wanted”, meaning Trinity and company wanting to get the trainman to take then to Mobil to rescue Neo.

Thoughts?

Starbuck

Starbuck said:

Quote:

The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

About this, i think Scientheist has provided us with an answer. The source is in my opinion is still the mainframe computer. Where programs are created and destroyed. The golden aura that Neo sees is what Scientheist called the machine matrix. Not a kind of world that we know, but a world where processes can and interact with each other. In a way this all these processes make up the overall machine consious. The source is where these processes and programs are born and destroyed. The overall drive of the machines comes from the source, and the source can send processes to be destroyed as it wishes. the source is the governing power of the machine world. " to a program all reality is virtual"

Quote:

I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

I agree with you 100%. The point i was trying to get across (not very well ) is that for the matrix to exist the human brain must be able to send Neural processes to the matrix and visa versa. This is the result of creating ssymbiotic relationship between humans and machines.

Quote:

The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.

fundimentally i agree. I agree with Maxis005 that the matrix tries to predict how humans will act and live. But they still can't completly write equations for the random ways which humans feel, love, hate. Therefore the problem is choice. Im still working on finalising my theory on Neo being the anomaly but i feel that it lies in the middle of maxis and starbuck (closely) (there are some good ideas coming from you guys keep it up.)

Quote:

I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

Yes. And because he is no longer under the control of the prophacy, he has more chance of reaching his potential. because his emotion and feelings are out of the realms of the prophecy (he is controlled by his love for trinity which is powerful)

I love your extended awareness idea. its awsome. You have taken my theory and refined it and i love it. Cheers

[quote]Posted: 13.Dec.2003 5:12 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HazzyBO wrote:

The source is the machine mainframe. This is what the oricle tells neo. A mainframe is a central processing Unit (CPU). This CPU is the consious of the machines. The machine consious is different to that of a humans consious. It is universal. It runs through everything connected to the machines. The machines think as a whole, not as individuals. The arcitect and the Oricle are programs created by the souce to run as part of the system.


The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

HazzyBO wrote:

When people are plugged into the matrix, their brains exchange nueral processes with that of the machine processes.

After experimenting on the human brain the machines learned how they could connect the human brain to their brain (mainframe) to use as power for the matrix. (this was in 2nd renaissance)

Therefore the thoughts and processes in the human brain can interchangable with that of the machines. (how else can humans live inside a digital world without exchanging neural (analog) processes with that digital system?)


I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo when hooked up to the matrix is part of that digital world. His real world consious is changed into digital consiousness.

Neos life is the result of an anomaly caused by choice inside the matrix. "the anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." - Arcitect.


I think this is accurate. Neural impulses in the brain and converted to digital form and interpreted by the Matrix as digital code.

HazzyBO wrote:

Because of an anomaly inside the matrix, Neo has change things which no one else can.

Him being "the one" is just the system controlling Neo, who threatens the system, with the "prophecy"


Basically this is correct. My interpretation of it is this:

Quote:

“Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication [BASE], a contingent [POSSIBLE] affirmation [TRUTH] that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One”


The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.



HazzyBO wrote:

This leads me nicely to my next point. What is the matrix? The matrix is a digital world made with code. The Matrix isn't a program though. Its always changing on how its inhabitants change it. It runs from the machine mainframe. The matrix code is powered by the processes of the machine mainframe (source). This source runs under everything of the machine world. It is the fundimental part of machine awareness.


Hmmm… I don’t know about the fact that it is part of the machine consciousness. See above.



HazzyBO wrote:

When meeting with the arcitect, Neo chooses to break from the control of the machines. He is now out of the system of control of the machines. This leaves the machines in a bit of a pickle because as the arciect sais - "that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself". Neo is no unchecked. Out of the wrelm of a prophecy.

Neos power is now allowed to grow.


I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

HazzyBO wrote:

When entering back into the matrix after his encounter with the arcitect, Neo is focused on one thing. Saving Trinity. He has never focused this hard ever before on bending the rules of the matrix to fly faster than he ever has. He needs to get to trinity in time. Because of this extreme focus, Neo reaches the source. Neo has focused so hard that he has reached the source (which processes the matrix code obviously because the matrix runs from the machine mainframe).


I would agree with this taking into account his intensity is driven by love and commitment.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo has now reached his true potential. He has discovered that he he can not only change the matrix, but can also change the processes which run this code (the source). This is how Neo reaches Trinity in time.

Neos Mental processes are now running through the machine processes because both have met. Neo touches the consious of the machines. This means that his processes will now be running through the machine processes. Part of Neo is now inside the source. A mental process of Neo runs through the source. Part of his awareness is incapsulated in the machine consious.

Neo has now, to an extent become psyic. He has a 6th sence. He has a split awareness. This is the true potential of having an idea of machine and human consious connected to each other.




Yes. I would say Neo has transcended the barriers of the Matrix VR environment into the real world and touched the physical consciousness of the machine mainframe. I would say not so much split awareness but and “extended” awareness.

[quote]Posted: 13.Dec.2003 5:12 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HazzyBO wrote:

The source is the machine mainframe. This is what the oricle tells neo. A mainframe is a central processing Unit (CPU). This CPU is the consious of the machines. The machine consious is different to that of a humans consious. It is universal. It runs through everything connected to the machines. The machines think as a whole, not as individuals. The arcitect and the Oricle are programs created by the souce to run as part of the system.


The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

HazzyBO wrote:

When people are plugged into the matrix, their brains exchange nueral processes with that of the machine processes.

After experimenting on the human brain the machines learned how they could connect the human brain to their brain (mainframe) to use as power for the matrix. (this was in 2nd renaissance)

Therefore the thoughts and processes in the human brain can interchangable with that of the machines. (how else can humans live inside a digital world without exchanging neural (analog) processes with that digital system?)


I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo when hooked up to the matrix is part of that digital world. His real world consious is changed into digital consiousness.

Neos life is the result of an anomaly caused by choice inside the matrix. "the anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." - Arcitect.


I think this is accurate. Neural impulses in the brain and converted to digital form and interpreted by the Matrix as digital code.

HazzyBO wrote:

Because of an anomaly inside the matrix, Neo has change things which no one else can.

Him being "the one" is just the system controlling Neo, who threatens the system, with the "prophecy"


Basically this is correct. My interpretation of it is this:

Quote:

“Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication [BASE], a contingent [POSSIBLE] affirmation [TRUTH] that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One”


The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.



HazzyBO wrote:

This leads me nicely to my next point. What is the matrix? The matrix is a digital world made with code. The Matrix isn't a program though. Its always changing on how its inhabitants change it. It runs from the machine mainframe. The matrix code is powered by the processes of the machine mainframe (source). This source runs under everything of the machine world. It is the fundimental part of machine awareness.


Hmmm… I don’t know about the fact that it is part of the machine consciousness. See above.



HazzyBO wrote:

When meeting with the arcitect, Neo chooses to break from the control of the machines. He is now out of the system of control of the machines. This leaves the machines in a bit of a pickle because as the arciect sais - "that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself". Neo is no unchecked. Out of the wrelm of a prophecy.

Neos power is now allowed to grow.


I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

HazzyBO wrote:

When entering back into the matrix after his encounter with the arcitect, Neo is focused on one thing. Saving Trinity. He has never focused this hard ever before on bending the rules of the matrix to fly faster than he ever has. He needs to get to trinity in time. Because of this extreme focus, Neo reaches the source. Neo has focused so hard that he has reached the source (which processes the matrix code obviously because the matrix runs from the machine mainframe).


I would agree with this taking into account his intensity is driven by love and commitment.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo has now reached his true potential. He has discovered that he he can not only change the matrix, but can also change the processes which run this code (the source). This is how Neo reaches Trinity in time.

Neos Mental processes are now running through the machine processes because both have met. Neo touches the consious of the machines. This means that his processes will now be running through the machine processes. Part of Neo is now inside the source. A mental process of Neo runs through the source. Part of his awareness is incapsulated in the machine consious.

Neo has now, to an extent become psyic. He has a 6th sence. He has a split awareness. This is the true potential of having an idea of machine and human consious connected to each other.




Yes. I would say Neo has transcended the barriers of the Matrix VR environment into the real world and touched the physical consciousness of the machine mainframe. I would say not so much split awareness but and “extended” awareness.

Quote:

I would disagree with this. Neo sent himself to Limbo not the machines. He did not know what to think of or how to handle this new found power. It was so overwhelming that to protect himself from destruction he ended up in Limbo until he could rationalize what he had become. When the Oracle said Neo wasn’t ready for death she was right. He should have died but instead as a self protection from the raw power he experienced he shielded himself in Limbo.

I think that to figure out how Neo found himself at Mobile Ave, one has to think about the theory we ahve so far, that he Neos awareness runs throught the machine matrix as well as his mind. After saving Trinity, Neo is not aware that his awareness runs through the machine matrix. his consiousness is not accualy aware of it. When he focuses hard on it he can feel it, when it is near. Im thinking along these lines.

When Neo meets his other part of his awareness when stopping the sentinals. His consious thought got exchanged to the other part of his awareness. So in effect, his whole consious runs through the machine matrix. Thus Neo passes out because his consiousness has been removed into the machine matrix. Im still working on how from the machine matrix Neo arrives at mobile ave.

Quote:

believe the trainman was talking about his recent experience with Trinity, Morpheus and Seraph. Remember just before that they chased the trainman through the tunnels of the underground subway. He never knew what they wanted because he escaped them by jumping in front of the train. When the trainman arrived at Mobil he discovers Neo there. He comments to himself “that’s what they must have wanted”, meaning Trinity and company wanting to get the trainman to take then to Mobil to rescue Neo

yea this makes more sense.

this is good. we are geting closer....

[/url]

Starbuck said:

Quote:

The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

About this, i think Scientheist has provided us with an answer. The source is in my opinion is still the mainframe computer. Where programs are created and destroyed. The golden aura that Neo sees is what Scientheist called the machine matrix. Not a kind of world that we know, but a world where processes can and interact with each other. In a way this all these processes make up the overall machine consious. The source is where these processes and programs are born and destroyed. The overall drive of the machines comes from the source, and the source can send processes to be destroyed as it wishes. the source is the governing power of the machine world. " to a program all reality is virtual"

Quote:

I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

I agree with you 100%. The point i was trying to get across (not very well ) is that for the matrix to exist the human brain must be able to send Neural processes to the matrix and visa versa. This is the result of creating ssymbiotic relationship between humans and machines.

Quote:

The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.

fundimentally i agree. I agree with Maxis005 that the matrix tries to predict how humans will act and live. But they still can't completly write equations for the random ways which humans feel, love, hate. Therefore the problem is choice. Im still working on finalising my theory on Neo being the anomaly but i feel that it lies in the middle of maxis and starbuck (closely) (there are some good ideas coming from you guys keep it up.)

Quote:

I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

Yes. And because he is no longer under the control of the prophacy, he has more chance of reaching his potential. because his emotion and feelings are out of the realms of the prophecy (he is controlled by his love for trinity which is powerful)

I love your extended awareness idea. its awsome. You have taken my theory and refined it and i love it. Cheers

[quote]Posted: 13.Dec.2003 5:12 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HazzyBO wrote:

The source is the machine mainframe. This is what the oricle tells neo. A mainframe is a central processing Unit (CPU). This CPU is the consious of the machines. The machine consious is different to that of a humans consious. It is universal. It runs through everything connected to the machines. The machines think as a whole, not as individuals. The arcitect and the Oricle are programs created by the souce to run as part of the system.


The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

HazzyBO wrote:

When people are plugged into the matrix, their brains exchange nueral processes with that of the machine processes.

After experimenting on the human brain the machines learned how they could connect the human brain to their brain (mainframe) to use as power for the matrix. (this was in 2nd renaissance)

Therefore the thoughts and processes in the human brain can interchangable with that of the machines. (how else can humans live inside a digital world without exchanging neural (analog) processes with that digital system?)


I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo when hooked up to the matrix is part of that digital world. His real world consious is changed into digital consiousness.

Neos life is the result of an anomaly caused by choice inside the matrix. "the anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." - Arcitect.


I think this is accurate. Neural impulses in the brain and converted to digital form and interpreted by the Matrix as digital code.

HazzyBO wrote:

Because of an anomaly inside the matrix, Neo has change things which no one else can.

Him being "the one" is just the system controlling Neo, who threatens the system, with the "prophecy"


Basically this is correct. My interpretation of it is this:

Quote:

“Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication [BASE], a contingent [POSSIBLE] affirmation [TRUTH] that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One”


The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.



HazzyBO wrote:

This leads me nicely to my next point. What is the matrix? The matrix is a digital world made with code. The Matrix isn't a program though. Its always changing on how its inhabitants change it. It runs from the machine mainframe. The matrix code is powered by the processes of the machine mainframe (source). This source runs under everything of the machine world. It is the fundimental part of machine awareness.


Hmmm… I don’t know about the fact that it is part of the machine consciousness. See above.



HazzyBO wrote:

When meeting with the arcitect, Neo chooses to break from the control of the machines. He is now out of the system of control of the machines. This leaves the machines in a bit of a pickle because as the arciect sais - "that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself". Neo is no unchecked. Out of the wrelm of a prophecy.

Neos power is now allowed to grow.


I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

HazzyBO wrote:

When entering back into the matrix after his encounter with the arcitect, Neo is focused on one thing. Saving Trinity. He has never focused this hard ever before on bending the rules of the matrix to fly faster than he ever has. He needs to get to trinity in time. Because of this extreme focus, Neo reaches the source. Neo has focused so hard that he has reached the source (which processes the matrix code obviously because the matrix runs from the machine mainframe).


I would agree with this taking into account his intensity is driven by love and commitment.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo has now reached his true potential. He has discovered that he he can not only change the matrix, but can also change the processes which run this code (the source). This is how Neo reaches Trinity in time.

Neos Mental processes are now running through the machine processes because both have met. Neo touches the consious of the machines. This means that his processes will now be running through the machine processes. Part of Neo is now inside the source. A mental process of Neo runs through the source. Part of his awareness is incapsulated in the machine consious.

Neo has now, to an extent become psyic. He has a 6th sence. He has a split awareness. This is the true potential of having an idea of machine and human consious connected to each other.




Yes. I would say Neo has transcended the barriers of the Matrix VR environment into the real world and touched the physical consciousness of the machine mainframe. I would say not so much split awareness but and “extended” awareness.

[quote]Posted: 13.Dec.2003 5:12 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HazzyBO wrote:

The source is the machine mainframe. This is what the oricle tells neo. A mainframe is a central processing Unit (CPU). This CPU is the consious of the machines. The machine consious is different to that of a humans consious. It is universal. It runs through everything connected to the machines. The machines think as a whole, not as individuals. The arcitect and the Oricle are programs created by the souce to run as part of the system.


The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

HazzyBO wrote:

When people are plugged into the matrix, their brains exchange nueral processes with that of the machine processes.

After experimenting on the human brain the machines learned how they could connect the human brain to their brain (mainframe) to use as power for the matrix. (this was in 2nd renaissance)

Therefore the thoughts and processes in the human brain can interchangable with that of the machines. (how else can humans live inside a digital world without exchanging neural (analog) processes with that digital system?)


I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo when hooked up to the matrix is part of that digital world. His real world consious is changed into digital consiousness.

Neos life is the result of an anomaly caused by choice inside the matrix. "the anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." - Arcitect.


I think this is accurate. Neural impulses in the brain and converted to digital form and interpreted by the Matrix as digital code.

HazzyBO wrote:

Because of an anomaly inside the matrix, Neo has change things which no one else can.

Him being "the one" is just the system controlling Neo, who threatens the system, with the "prophecy"


Basically this is correct. My interpretation of it is this:

Quote:

“Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication [BASE], a contingent [POSSIBLE] affirmation [TRUTH] that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One”


The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.



HazzyBO wrote:

This leads me nicely to my next point. What is the matrix? The matrix is a digital world made with code. The Matrix isn't a program though. Its always changing on how its inhabitants change it. It runs from the machine mainframe. The matrix code is powered by the processes of the machine mainframe (source). This source runs under everything of the machine world. It is the fundimental part of machine awareness.


Hmmm… I don’t know about the fact that it is part of the machine consciousness. See above.



HazzyBO wrote:

When meeting with the arcitect, Neo chooses to break from the control of the machines. He is now out of the system of control of the machines. This leaves the machines in a bit of a pickle because as the arciect sais - "that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself". Neo is no unchecked. Out of the wrelm of a prophecy.

Neos power is now allowed to grow.


I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

HazzyBO wrote:

When entering back into the matrix after his encounter with the arcitect, Neo is focused on one thing. Saving Trinity. He has never focused this hard ever before on bending the rules of the matrix to fly faster than he ever has. He needs to get to trinity in time. Because of this extreme focus, Neo reaches the source. Neo has focused so hard that he has reached the source (which processes the matrix code obviously because the matrix runs from the machine mainframe).


I would agree with this taking into account his intensity is driven by love and commitment.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo has now reached his true potential. He has discovered that he he can not only change the matrix, but can also change the processes which run this code (the source). This is how Neo reaches Trinity in time.

Neos Mental processes are now running through the machine processes because both have met. Neo touches the consious of the machines. This means that his processes will now be running through the machine processes. Part of Neo is now inside the source. A mental process of Neo runs through the source. Part of his awareness is incapsulated in the machine consious.

Neo has now, to an extent become psyic. He has a 6th sence. He has a split awareness. This is the true potential of having an idea of machine and human consious connected to each other.




Yes. I would say Neo has transcended the barriers of the Matrix VR environment into the real world and touched the physical consciousness of the machine mainframe. I would say not so much split awareness but and “extended” awareness.

Quote:

I would disagree with this. Neo sent himself to Limbo not the machines. He did not know what to think of or how to handle this new found power. It was so overwhelming that to protect himself from destruction he ended up in Limbo until he could rationalize what he had become. When the Oracle said Neo wasn’t ready for death she was right. He should have died but instead as a self protection from the raw power he experienced he shielded himself in Limbo.

I think that to figure out how Neo found himself at Mobile Ave, one has to think about the theory we ahve so far, that he Neos awareness runs throught the machine matrix as well as his mind. After saving Trinity, Neo is not aware that his awareness runs through the machine matrix. his consiousness is not accualy aware of it. When he focuses hard on it he can feel it, when it is near. Im thinking along these lines.

When Neo meets his other part of his awareness when stopping the sentinals. His consious thought got exchanged to the other part of his awareness. So in effect, his whole consious runs through the machine matrix. Thus Neo passes out because his consiousness has been removed into the machine matrix. Im still working on how from the machine matrix Neo arrives at mobile ave.

Quote:

believe the trainman was talking about his recent experience with Trinity, Morpheus and Seraph. Remember just before that they chased the trainman through the tunnels of the underground subway. He never knew what they wanted because he escaped them by jumping in front of the train. When the trainman arrived at Mobil he discovers Neo there. He comments to himself “that’s what they must have wanted”, meaning Trinity and company wanting to get the trainman to take then to Mobil to rescue Neo

yea this makes more sense.

this is good. we are geting closer....

[/url]

Starbuck said:

Quote:

The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

About this, i think Scientheist has provided us with an answer. The source is in my opinion is still the mainframe computer. Where programs are created and destroyed. The golden aura that Neo sees is what Scientheist called the machine matrix. Not a kind of world that we know, but a world where processes can and interact with each other. In a way this all these processes make up the overall machine consious. The source is where these processes and programs are born and destroyed. The overall drive of the machines comes from the source, and the source can send processes to be destroyed as it wishes. the source is the governing power of the machine world. " to a program all reality is virtual"

Quote:

I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

I agree with you 100%. The point i was trying to get across (not very well ) is that for the matrix to exist the human brain must be able to send Neural processes to the matrix and visa versa. This is the result of creating ssymbiotic relationship between humans and machines.

Quote:

The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.

fundimentally i agree. I agree with Maxis005 that the matrix tries to predict how humans will act and live. But they still can't completly write equations for the random ways which humans feel, love, hate. Therefore the problem is choice. Im still working on finalising my theory on Neo being the anomaly but i feel that it lies in the middle of maxis and starbuck (closely) (there are some good ideas coming from you guys keep it up.)

Quote:

I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

Yes. And because he is no longer under the control of the prophacy, he has more chance of reaching his potential. because his emotion and feelings are out of the realms of the prophecy (he is controlled by his love for trinity which is powerful)

I love your extended awareness idea. its awsome. You have taken my theory and refined it and i love it. Cheers

[quote]Posted: 13.Dec.2003 5:12 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HazzyBO wrote:

The source is the machine mainframe. This is what the oricle tells neo. A mainframe is a central processing Unit (CPU). This CPU is the consious of the machines. The machine consious is different to that of a humans consious. It is universal. It runs through everything connected to the machines. The machines think as a whole, not as individuals. The arcitect and the Oricle are programs created by the souce to run as part of the system.


The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

HazzyBO wrote:

When people are plugged into the matrix, their brains exchange nueral processes with that of the machine processes.

After experimenting on the human brain the machines learned how they could connect the human brain to their brain (mainframe) to use as power for the matrix. (this was in 2nd renaissance)

Therefore the thoughts and processes in the human brain can interchangable with that of the machines. (how else can humans live inside a digital world without exchanging neural (analog) processes with that digital system?)


I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo when hooked up to the matrix is part of that digital world. His real world consious is changed into digital consiousness.

Neos life is the result of an anomaly caused by choice inside the matrix. "the anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." - Arcitect.


I think this is accurate. Neural impulses in the brain and converted to digital form and interpreted by the Matrix as digital code.

HazzyBO wrote:

Because of an anomaly inside the matrix, Neo has change things which no one else can.

Him being "the one" is just the system controlling Neo, who threatens the system, with the "prophecy"


Basically this is correct. My interpretation of it is this:

Quote:

“Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication [BASE], a contingent [POSSIBLE] affirmation [TRUTH] that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One”


The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.



HazzyBO wrote:

This leads me nicely to my next point. What is the matrix? The matrix is a digital world made with code. The Matrix isn't a program though. Its always changing on how its inhabitants change it. It runs from the machine mainframe. The matrix code is powered by the processes of the machine mainframe (source). This source runs under everything of the machine world. It is the fundimental part of machine awareness.


Hmmm… I don’t know about the fact that it is part of the machine consciousness. See above.



HazzyBO wrote:

When meeting with the arcitect, Neo chooses to break from the control of the machines. He is now out of the system of control of the machines. This leaves the machines in a bit of a pickle because as the arciect sais - "that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself". Neo is no unchecked. Out of the wrelm of a prophecy.

Neos power is now allowed to grow.


I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

HazzyBO wrote:

When entering back into the matrix after his encounter with the arcitect, Neo is focused on one thing. Saving Trinity. He has never focused this hard ever before on bending the rules of the matrix to fly faster than he ever has. He needs to get to trinity in time. Because of this extreme focus, Neo reaches the source. Neo has focused so hard that he has reached the source (which processes the matrix code obviously because the matrix runs from the machine mainframe).


I would agree with this taking into account his intensity is driven by love and commitment.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo has now reached his true potential. He has discovered that he he can not only change the matrix, but can also change the processes which run this code (the source). This is how Neo reaches Trinity in time.

Neos Mental processes are now running through the machine processes because both have met. Neo touches the consious of the machines. This means that his processes will now be running through the machine processes. Part of Neo is now inside the source. A mental process of Neo runs through the source. Part of his awareness is incapsulated in the machine consious.

Neo has now, to an extent become psyic. He has a 6th sence. He has a split awareness. This is the true potential of having an idea of machine and human consious connected to each other.




Yes. I would say Neo has transcended the barriers of the Matrix VR environment into the real world and touched the physical consciousness of the machine mainframe. I would say not so much split awareness but and “extended” awareness.

[quote]Posted: 13.Dec.2003 5:12 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HazzyBO wrote:

The source is the machine mainframe. This is what the oricle tells neo. A mainframe is a central processing Unit (CPU). This CPU is the consious of the machines. The machine consious is different to that of a humans consious. It is universal. It runs through everything connected to the machines. The machines think as a whole, not as individuals. The arcitect and the Oricle are programs created by the souce to run as part of the system.


The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

HazzyBO wrote:

When people are plugged into the matrix, their brains exchange nueral processes with that of the machine processes.

After experimenting on the human brain the machines learned how they could connect the human brain to their brain (mainframe) to use as power for the matrix. (this was in 2nd renaissance)

Therefore the thoughts and processes in the human brain can interchangable with that of the machines. (how else can humans live inside a digital world without exchanging neural (analog) processes with that digital system?)


I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo when hooked up to the matrix is part of that digital world. His real world consious is changed into digital consiousness.

Neos life is the result of an anomaly caused by choice inside the matrix. "the anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." - Arcitect.


I think this is accurate. Neural impulses in the brain and converted to digital form and interpreted by the Matrix as digital code.

HazzyBO wrote:

Because of an anomaly inside the matrix, Neo has change things which no one else can.

Him being "the one" is just the system controlling Neo, who threatens the system, with the "prophecy"


Basically this is correct. My interpretation of it is this:

Quote:

“Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication [BASE], a contingent [POSSIBLE] affirmation [TRUTH] that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One”


The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.



HazzyBO wrote:

This leads me nicely to my next point. What is the matrix? The matrix is a digital world made with code. The Matrix isn't a program though. Its always changing on how its inhabitants change it. It runs from the machine mainframe. The matrix code is powered by the processes of the machine mainframe (source). This source runs under everything of the machine world. It is the fundimental part of machine awareness.


Hmmm… I don’t know about the fact that it is part of the machine consciousness. See above.



HazzyBO wrote:

When meeting with the arcitect, Neo chooses to break from the control of the machines. He is now out of the system of control of the machines. This leaves the machines in a bit of a pickle because as the arciect sais - "that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself". Neo is no unchecked. Out of the wrelm of a prophecy.

Neos power is now allowed to grow.


I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

HazzyBO wrote:

When entering back into the matrix after his encounter with the arcitect, Neo is focused on one thing. Saving Trinity. He has never focused this hard ever before on bending the rules of the matrix to fly faster than he ever has. He needs to get to trinity in time. Because of this extreme focus, Neo reaches the source. Neo has focused so hard that he has reached the source (which processes the matrix code obviously because the matrix runs from the machine mainframe).


I would agree with this taking into account his intensity is driven by love and commitment.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo has now reached his true potential. He has discovered that he he can not only change the matrix, but can also change the processes which run this code (the source). This is how Neo reaches Trinity in time.

Neos Mental processes are now running through the machine processes because both have met. Neo touches the consious of the machines. This means that his processes will now be running through the machine processes. Part of Neo is now inside the source. A mental process of Neo runs through the source. Part of his awareness is incapsulated in the machine consious.

Neo has now, to an extent become psyic. He has a 6th sence. He has a split awareness. This is the true potential of having an idea of machine and human consious connected to each other.




Yes. I would say Neo has transcended the barriers of the Matrix VR environment into the real world and touched the physical consciousness of the machine mainframe. I would say not so much split awareness but and “extended” awareness.

Quote:

I would disagree with this. Neo sent himself to Limbo not the machines. He did not know what to think of or how to handle this new found power. It was so overwhelming that to protect himself from destruction he ended up in Limbo until he could rationalize what he had become. When the Oracle said Neo wasn’t ready for death she was right. He should have died but instead as a self protection from the raw power he experienced he shielded himself in Limbo.

I think that to figure out how Neo found himself at Mobile Ave, one has to think about the theory we ahve so far, that he Neos awareness runs throught the machine matrix as well as his mind. After saving Trinity, Neo is not aware that his awareness runs through the machine matrix. his consiousness is not accualy aware of it. When he focuses hard on it he can feel it, when it is near. Im thinking along these lines.

When Neo meets his other part of his awareness when stopping the sentinals. His consious thought got exchanged to the other part of his awareness. So in effect, his whole consious runs through the machine matrix. Thus Neo passes out because his consiousness has been removed into the machine matrix. Im still working on how from the machine matrix Neo arrives at mobile ave.

Quote:

believe the trainman was talking about his recent experience with Trinity, Morpheus and Seraph. Remember just before that they chased the trainman through the tunnels of the underground subway. He never knew what they wanted because he escaped them by jumping in front of the train. When the trainman arrived at Mobil he discovers Neo there. He comments to himself “that’s what they must have wanted”, meaning Trinity and company wanting to get the trainman to take then to Mobil to rescue Neo

yea this makes more sense.

this is good. we are geting closer....

Starbuck said:

Quote:

The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

About this, i think Scientheist has provided us with an answer. The source is in my opinion is still the mainframe computer. Where programs are created and destroyed. The golden aura that Neo sees is what Scientheist called the machine matrix. Not a kind of world that we know, but a world where processes can and interact with each other. In a way this all these processes make up the overall machine consious. The source is where these processes and programs are born and destroyed. The overall drive of the machines comes from the source, and the source can send processes to be destroyed as it wishes. the source is the governing power of the machine world. " to a program all reality is virtual"

Quote:

I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

I agree with you 100%. The point i was trying to get across (not very well ) is that for the matrix to exist the human brain must be able to send Neural processes to the matrix and visa versa. This is the result of creating ssymbiotic relationship between humans and machines.

Quote:

The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.

fundimentally i agree. I agree with Maxis005 that the matrix tries to predict how humans will act and live. But they still can't completly write equations for the random ways which humans feel, love, hate. Therefore the problem is choice. Im still working on finalising my theory on Neo being the anomaly but i feel that it lies in the middle of maxis and starbuck (closely) (there are some good ideas coming from you guys keep it up.)

Quote:

I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

Yes. And because he is no longer under the control of the prophacy, he has more chance of reaching his potential. because his emotion and feelings are out of the realms of the prophecy (he is controlled by his love for trinity which is powerful)

I love your extended awareness idea. its awsome. You have taken my theory and refined it and i love it. Cheers

[quote]Posted: 13.Dec.2003 5:12 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HazzyBO wrote:

The source is the machine mainframe. This is what the oricle tells neo. A mainframe is a central processing Unit (CPU). This CPU is the consious of the machines. The machine consious is different to that of a humans consious. It is universal. It runs through everything connected to the machines. The machines think as a whole, not as individuals. The arcitect and the Oricle are programs created by the souce to run as part of the system.


The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

HazzyBO wrote:

When people are plugged into the matrix, their brains exchange nueral processes with that of the machine processes.

After experimenting on the human brain the machines learned how they could connect the human brain to their brain (mainframe) to use as power for the matrix. (this was in 2nd renaissance)

Therefore the thoughts and processes in the human brain can interchangable with that of the machines. (how else can humans live inside a digital world without exchanging neural (analog) processes with that digital system?)


I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo when hooked up to the matrix is part of that digital world. His real world consious is changed into digital consiousness.

Neos life is the result of an anomaly caused by choice inside the matrix. "the anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." - Arcitect.


I think this is accurate. Neural impulses in the brain and converted to digital form and interpreted by the Matrix as digital code.

HazzyBO wrote:

Because of an anomaly inside the matrix, Neo has change things which no one else can.

Him being "the one" is just the system controlling Neo, who threatens the system, with the "prophecy"


Basically this is correct. My interpretation of it is this:

Quote:

“Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication [BASE], a contingent [POSSIBLE] affirmation [TRUTH] that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One”


The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.



HazzyBO wrote:

This leads me nicely to my next point. What is the matrix? The matrix is a digital world made with code. The Matrix isn't a program though. Its always changing on how its inhabitants change it. It runs from the machine mainframe. The matrix code is powered by the processes of the machine mainframe (source). This source runs under everything of the machine world. It is the fundimental part of machine awareness.


Hmmm… I don’t know about the fact that it is part of the machine consciousness. See above.



HazzyBO wrote:

When meeting with the arcitect, Neo chooses to break from the control of the machines. He is now out of the system of control of the machines. This leaves the machines in a bit of a pickle because as the arciect sais - "that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself". Neo is no unchecked. Out of the wrelm of a prophecy.

Neos power is now allowed to grow.


I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

HazzyBO wrote:

When entering back into the matrix after his encounter with the arcitect, Neo is focused on one thing. Saving Trinity. He has never focused this hard ever before on bending the rules of the matrix to fly faster than he ever has. He needs to get to trinity in time. Because of this extreme focus, Neo reaches the source. Neo has focused so hard that he has reached the source (which processes the matrix code obviously because the matrix runs from the machine mainframe).


I would agree with this taking into account his intensity is driven by love and commitment.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo has now reached his true potential. He has discovered that he he can not only change the matrix, but can also change the processes which run this code (the source). This is how Neo reaches Trinity in time.

Neos Mental processes are now running through the machine processes because both have met. Neo touches the consious of the machines. This means that his processes will now be running through the machine processes. Part of Neo is now inside the source. A mental process of Neo runs through the source. Part of his awareness is incapsulated in the machine consious.

Neo has now, to an extent become psyic. He has a 6th sence. He has a split awareness. This is the true potential of having an idea of machine and human consious connected to each other.




Yes. I would say Neo has transcended the barriers of the Matrix VR environment into the real world and touched the physical consciousness of the machine mainframe. I would say not so much split awareness but and “extended” awareness.

[quote]Posted: 13.Dec.2003 5:12 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HazzyBO wrote:

The source is the machine mainframe. This is what the oricle tells neo. A mainframe is a central processing Unit (CPU). This CPU is the consious of the machines. The machine consious is different to that of a humans consious. It is universal. It runs through everything connected to the machines. The machines think as a whole, not as individuals. The arcitect and the Oricle are programs created by the souce to run as part of the system.


The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

HazzyBO wrote:

When people are plugged into the matrix, their brains exchange nueral processes with that of the machine processes.

After experimenting on the human brain the machines learned how they could connect the human brain to their brain (mainframe) to use as power for the matrix. (this was in 2nd renaissance)

Therefore the thoughts and processes in the human brain can interchangable with that of the machines. (how else can humans live inside a digital world without exchanging neural (analog) processes with that digital system?)


I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo when hooked up to the matrix is part of that digital world. His real world consious is changed into digital consiousness.

Neos life is the result of an anomaly caused by choice inside the matrix. "the anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." - Arcitect.


I think this is accurate. Neural impulses in the brain and converted to digital form and interpreted by the Matrix as digital code.

HazzyBO wrote:

Because of an anomaly inside the matrix, Neo has change things which no one else can.

Him being "the one" is just the system controlling Neo, who threatens the system, with the "prophecy"


Basically this is correct. My interpretation of it is this:

Quote:

“Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication [BASE], a contingent [POSSIBLE] affirmation [TRUTH] that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One”


The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.



HazzyBO wrote:

This leads me nicely to my next point. What is the matrix? The matrix is a digital world made with code. The Matrix isn't a program though. Its always changing on how its inhabitants change it. It runs from the machine mainframe. The matrix code is powered by the processes of the machine mainframe (source). This source runs under everything of the machine world. It is the fundimental part of machine awareness.


Hmmm… I don’t know about the fact that it is part of the machine consciousness. See above.



HazzyBO wrote:

When meeting with the arcitect, Neo chooses to break from the control of the machines. He is now out of the system of control of the machines. This leaves the machines in a bit of a pickle because as the arciect sais - "that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself". Neo is no unchecked. Out of the wrelm of a prophecy.

Neos power is now allowed to grow.


I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

HazzyBO wrote:

When entering back into the matrix after his encounter with the arcitect, Neo is focused on one thing. Saving Trinity. He has never focused this hard ever before on bending the rules of the matrix to fly faster than he ever has. He needs to get to trinity in time. Because of this extreme focus, Neo reaches the source. Neo has focused so hard that he has reached the source (which processes the matrix code obviously because the matrix runs from the machine mainframe).


I would agree with this taking into account his intensity is driven by love and commitment.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo has now reached his true potential. He has discovered that he he can not only change the matrix, but can also change the processes which run this code (the source). This is how Neo reaches Trinity in time.

Neos Mental processes are now running through the machine processes because both have met. Neo touches the consious of the machines. This means that his processes will now be running through the machine processes. Part of Neo is now inside the source. A mental process of Neo runs through the source. Part of his awareness is incapsulated in the machine consious.

Neo has now, to an extent become psyic. He has a 6th sence. He has a split awareness. This is the true potential of having an idea of machine and human consious connected to each other.




Yes. I would say Neo has transcended the barriers of the Matrix VR environment into the real world and touched the physical consciousness of the machine mainframe. I would say not so much split awareness but and “extended” awareness.

Quote:

I would disagree with this. Neo sent himself to Limbo not the machines. He did not know what to think of or how to handle this new found power. It was so overwhelming that to protect himself from destruction he ended up in Limbo until he could rationalize what he had become. When the Oracle said Neo wasn’t ready for death she was right. He should have died but instead as a self protection from the raw power he experienced he shielded himself in Limbo.

I think that to figure out how Neo found himself at Mobile Ave, one has to think about the theory we ahve so far, that he Neos awareness runs throught the machine matrix as well as his mind. After saving Trinity, Neo is not aware that his awareness runs through the machine matrix. his consiousness is not accualy aware of it. When he focuses hard on it he can feel it, when it is near. Im thinking along these lines.

When Neo meets his other part of his awareness when stopping the sentinals. His consious thought got exchanged to the other part of his awareness. So in effect, his whole consious runs through the machine matrix. Thus Neo passes out because his consiousness has been removed into the machine matrix. Im still working on how from the machine matrix Neo arrives at mobile ave.

Quote:

believe the trainman was talking about his recent experience with Trinity, Morpheus and Seraph. Remember just before that they chased the trainman through the tunnels of the underground subway. He never knew what they wanted because he escaped them by jumping in front of the train. When the trainman arrived at Mobil he discovers Neo there. He comments to himself “that’s what they must have wanted”, meaning Trinity and company wanting to get the trainman to take then to Mobil to rescue Neo

yea this makes more sense.

this is good. we are geting closer....

Forget my last post. It somehow got screwd up this is it

Starbuck said:

Quote:

The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

About this, i think Scientheist has provided us with an answer. The source is in my opinion is still the mainframe computer. Where programs are created and destroyed. The golden aura that Neo sees is what Scientheist called the machine matrix. Not a kind of world that we know, but a world where processes can and interact with each other. In a way this all these processes make up the overall machine consious. The source is where these processes and programs are born and destroyed. The overall drive of the machines comes from the source, and the source can send processes to be destroyed as it wishes. the source is the governing power of the machine world. " to a program all reality is virtual"

Quote:

I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

I agree with you 100%. The point i was trying to get across (not very well ) is that for the matrix to exist the human brain must be able to send Neural processes to the matrix and visa versa. This is the result of creating ssymbiotic relationship between humans and machines.

Quote:

The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.

fundimentally i agree. I agree with Maxis005 that the matrix tries to predict how humans will act and live. But they still can't completly write equations for the random ways which humans feel, love, hate. Therefore the problem is choice. Im still working on finalising my theory on Neo being the anomaly but i feel that it lies in the middle of maxis and starbuck (closely) (there are some good ideas coming from you guys keep it up.)

Quote:

I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

Yes. And because he is no longer under the control of the prophacy, he has more chance of reaching his potential. because his emotion and feelings are out of the realms of the prophecy (he is controlled by his love for trinity which is powerful)

I love your extended awareness idea. its awsome. You have taken my theory and refined it and i love it. Cheers

[quote]Posted: 13.Dec.2003 5:12 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HazzyBO wrote:

The source is the machine mainframe. This is what the oricle tells neo. A mainframe is a central processing Unit (CPU). This CPU is the consious of the machines. The machine consious is different to that of a humans consious. It is universal. It runs through everything connected to the machines. The machines think as a whole, not as individuals. The arcitect and the Oricle are programs created by the souce to run as part of the system.


The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

HazzyBO wrote:

When people are plugged into the matrix, their brains exchange nueral processes with that of the machine processes.

After experimenting on the human brain the machines learned how they could connect the human brain to their brain (mainframe) to use as power for the matrix. (this was in 2nd renaissance)

Therefore the thoughts and processes in the human brain can interchangable with that of the machines. (how else can humans live inside a digital world without exchanging neural (analog) processes with that digital system?)


I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo when hooked up to the matrix is part of that digital world. His real world consious is changed into digital consiousness.

Neos life is the result of an anomaly caused by choice inside the matrix. "the anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." - Arcitect.


I think this is accurate. Neural impulses in the brain and converted to digital form and interpreted by the Matrix as digital code.

HazzyBO wrote:

Because of an anomaly inside the matrix, Neo has change things which no one else can.

Him being "the one" is just the system controlling Neo, who threatens the system, with the "prophecy"


Basically this is correct. My interpretation of it is this:

Quote:

“Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication [BASE], a contingent [POSSIBLE] affirmation [TRUTH] that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One”


The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.



HazzyBO wrote:

This leads me nicely to my next point. What is the matrix? The matrix is a digital world made with code. The Matrix isn't a program though. Its always changing on how its inhabitants change it. It runs from the machine mainframe. The matrix code is powered by the processes of the machine mainframe (source). This source runs under everything of the machine world. It is the fundimental part of machine awareness.


Hmmm… I don’t know about the fact that it is part of the machine consciousness. See above.



HazzyBO wrote:

When meeting with the arcitect, Neo chooses to break from the control of the machines. He is now out of the system of control of the machines. This leaves the machines in a bit of a pickle because as the arciect sais - "that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself". Neo is no unchecked. Out of the wrelm of a prophecy.

Neos power is now allowed to grow.


I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

HazzyBO wrote:

When entering back into the matrix after his encounter with the arcitect, Neo is focused on one thing. Saving Trinity. He has never focused this hard ever before on bending the rules of the matrix to fly faster than he ever has. He needs to get to trinity in time. Because of this extreme focus, Neo reaches the source. Neo has focused so hard that he has reached the source (which processes the matrix code obviously because the matrix runs from the machine mainframe).


I would agree with this taking into account his intensity is driven by love and commitment.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo has now reached his true potential. He has discovered that he he can not only change the matrix, but can also change the processes which run this code (the source). This is how Neo reaches Trinity in time.

Neos Mental processes are now running through the machine processes because both have met. Neo touches the consious of the machines. This means that his processes will now be running through the machine processes. Part of Neo is now inside the source. A mental process of Neo runs through the source. Part of his awareness is incapsulated in the machine consious.

Neo has now, to an extent become psyic. He has a 6th sence. He has a split awareness. This is the true potential of having an idea of machine and human consious connected to each other.




Yes. I would say Neo has transcended the barriers of the Matrix VR environment into the real world and touched the physical consciousness of the machine mainframe. I would say not so much split awareness but and “extended” awareness.

[quote]Posted: 13.Dec.2003 5:12 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HazzyBO wrote:

The source is the machine mainframe. This is what the oricle tells neo. A mainframe is a central processing Unit (CPU). This CPU is the consious of the machines. The machine consious is different to that of a humans consious. It is universal. It runs through everything connected to the machines. The machines think as a whole, not as individuals. The arcitect and the Oricle are programs created by the souce to run as part of the system.


The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

HazzyBO wrote:

When people are plugged into the matrix, their brains exchange nueral processes with that of the machine processes.

After experimenting on the human brain the machines learned how they could connect the human brain to their brain (mainframe) to use as power for the matrix. (this was in 2nd renaissance)

Therefore the thoughts and processes in the human brain can interchangable with that of the machines. (how else can humans live inside a digital world without exchanging neural (analog) processes with that digital system?)


I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo when hooked up to the matrix is part of that digital world. His real world consious is changed into digital consiousness.

Neos life is the result of an anomaly caused by choice inside the matrix. "the anomaly is systemic - creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations." - Arcitect.


I think this is accurate. Neural impulses in the brain and converted to digital form and interpreted by the Matrix as digital code.

HazzyBO wrote:

Because of an anomaly inside the matrix, Neo has change things which no one else can.

Him being "the one" is just the system controlling Neo, who threatens the system, with the "prophecy"


Basically this is correct. My interpretation of it is this:

Quote:

“Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication [BASE], a contingent [POSSIBLE] affirmation [TRUTH] that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One”


The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.



HazzyBO wrote:

This leads me nicely to my next point. What is the matrix? The matrix is a digital world made with code. The Matrix isn't a program though. Its always changing on how its inhabitants change it. It runs from the machine mainframe. The matrix code is powered by the processes of the machine mainframe (source). This source runs under everything of the machine world. It is the fundimental part of machine awareness.


Hmmm… I don’t know about the fact that it is part of the machine consciousness. See above.



HazzyBO wrote:

When meeting with the arcitect, Neo chooses to break from the control of the machines. He is now out of the system of control of the machines. This leaves the machines in a bit of a pickle because as the arciect sais - "that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself". Neo is no unchecked. Out of the wrelm of a prophecy.

Neos power is now allowed to grow.


I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

HazzyBO wrote:

When entering back into the matrix after his encounter with the arcitect, Neo is focused on one thing. Saving Trinity. He has never focused this hard ever before on bending the rules of the matrix to fly faster than he ever has. He needs to get to trinity in time. Because of this extreme focus, Neo reaches the source. Neo has focused so hard that he has reached the source (which processes the matrix code obviously because the matrix runs from the machine mainframe).


I would agree with this taking into account his intensity is driven by love and commitment.

HazzyBO wrote:

Neo has now reached his true potential. He has discovered that he he can not only change the matrix, but can also change the processes which run this code (the source). This is how Neo reaches Trinity in time.

Neos Mental processes are now running through the machine processes because both have met. Neo touches the consious of the machines. This means that his processes will now be running through the machine processes. Part of Neo is now inside the source. A mental process of Neo runs through the source. Part of his awareness is incapsulated in the machine consious.

Neo has now, to an extent become psyic. He has a 6th sence. He has a split awareness. This is the true potential of having an idea of machine and human consious connected to each other.




Yes. I would say Neo has transcended the barriers of the Matrix VR environment into the real world and touched the physical consciousness of the machine mainframe. I would say not so much split awareness but and “extended” awareness.

Quote:

I would disagree with this. Neo sent himself to Limbo not the machines. He did not know what to think of or how to handle this new found power. It was so overwhelming that to protect himself from destruction he ended up in Limbo until he could rationalize what he had become. When the Oracle said Neo wasn’t ready for death she was right. He should have died but instead as a self protection from the raw power he experienced he shielded himself in Limbo.

I think that to figure out how Neo found himself at Mobile Ave, one has to think about the theory we ahve so far, that he Neos awareness runs throught the machine matrix as well as his mind. After saving Trinity, Neo is not aware that his awareness runs through the machine matrix. his consiousness is not accualy aware of it. When he focuses hard on it he can feel it, when it is near. Im thinking along these lines.

When Neo meets his other part of his awareness when stopping the sentinals. His consious thought got exchanged to the other part of his awareness. So in effect, his whole consious runs through the machine matrix. Thus Neo passes out because his consiousness has been removed into the machine matrix. Im still working on how from the machine matrix Neo arrives at mobile ave.

Quote:

believe the trainman was talking about his recent experience with Trinity, Morpheus and Seraph. Remember just before that they chased the trainman through the tunnels of the underground subway. He never knew what they wanted because he escaped them by jumping in front of the train. When the trainman arrived at Mobil he discovers Neo there. He comments to himself “that’s what they must have wanted”, meaning Trinity and company wanting to get the trainman to take then to Mobil to rescue Neo

yea this makes more sense.

this is good. we are geting closer....

Forget my last post. It somehow got screwd up this is it

Starbuck said:

Quote:

The source is the machine main frame but I am not sure they are all connected in the way you describe. Morpheus states that man gave birth to AI which spawned an entire race of machines. I think the source is that AI and all machines are connected to each other in a network or sorts where they share consciousness but that each individual machine is also an individual. If they were not then there could be no exile programs. They themselves are sentient but separate from the source. Also if this were true the Oracle could not have the free will to try and guide Neo to a different outcome than the other ones. She is playing the dangerous game so obviously she is not completely connected to a central consciousness or she would have been stopped.

About this, i think Scientheist has provided us with an answer. The source is in my opinion is still the mainframe computer. Where programs are created and destroyed. The golden aura that Neo sees is what Scientheist called the machine matrix. Not a kind of world that we know, but a world where processes can and interact with each other. In a way this all these processes make up the overall machine consious. The source is where these processes and programs are born and destroyed. The overall drive of the machines comes from the source, and the source can send processes to be destroyed as it wishes. the source is the governing power of the machine world. " to a program all reality is virtual"

Quote:

I believe the matrix is a non sentient interactive virtual reality (VR) program created by the machines for the humans to keep them occupied with their lives and not become aware of their true nature. It is a system of control. Machines can interface with the matrix just as humans can. I don’t think the matrix is the humans actually interfacing with the machines.

I agree with you 100%. The point i was trying to get across (not very well ) is that for the matrix to exist the human brain must be able to send Neural processes to the matrix and visa versa. This is the result of creating ssymbiotic relationship between humans and machines.

Quote:

The Oracle and the Architect are aware of this anomaly and thus designed the matrix to produce and guide this anomaly back to the source for incorporation into the system based on certain possible truths. The parameters of that truth are a profound attachment to the rest of his species. This is the basis for the flaw in the matrix. It is emotion that drives us to grow and to be free. Neo can do the things he does because of his will of commitment to himself, Trinity and the cause of freedom.

fundimentally i agree. I agree with Maxis005 that the matrix tries to predict how humans will act and live. But they still can't completly write equations for the random ways which humans feel, love, hate. Therefore the problem is choice. Im still working on finalising my theory on Neo being the anomaly but i feel that it lies in the middle of maxis and starbuck (closely) (there are some good ideas coming from you guys keep it up.)

Quote:

I believe Neos power grows on its own independent of any outside influences. It is love that drives him to reach further into his mind than any other one has ever reached before.

Yes. And because he is no longer under the control of the prophecy, he has more chance of reaching his potential. because his emotion and feelings are out of the realms of the prophecy (he is controlled by his love for trinity which is powerful)

I love your extended awareness idea. its awsome. You have taken my theory and refined it and i love it. Cheers

Quote:

I would disagree with this. Neo sent himself to Limbo not the machines. He did not know what to think of or how to handle this new found power. It was so overwhelming that to protect himself from destruction he ended up in Limbo until he could rationalize what he had become. When the Oracle said Neo wasn’t ready for death she was right. He should have died but instead as a self protection from the raw power he experienced he shielded himself in Limbo.

I think that to figure out how Neo found himself at Mobile Ave, one has to think about the theory we ahve so far, that he Neos awareness runs throught the machine matrix as well as his mind. After saving Trinity, Neo is not aware that his awareness runs through the machine matrix. his consiousness is not accualy aware of it. When he focuses hard on it he can feel it, when it is near. Im thinking along these lines.

When Neo meets his other part of his awareness when stopping the sentinals. His consious thought got exchanged to the other part of his awareness. So in effect, his whole consious runs through the machine matrix. Thus Neo passes out because his consiousness has been removed into the machine matrix. Im still working on how from the machine matrix Neo arrives at mobile ave.

Quote:

believe the trainman was talking about his recent experience with Trinity, Morpheus and Seraph. Remember just before that they chased the trainman through the tunnels of the underground subway. He never knew what they wanted because he escaped them by jumping in front of the train. When the trainman arrived at Mobil he discovers Neo there. He comments to himself “that’s what they must have wanted”, meaning Trinity and company wanting to get the trainman to take then to Mobil to rescue Neo

yea this makes more sense.

this is good. we are geting closer....

I still cant buy into to orange matrix theory. there is just no evidence to support it. I still feel Neo has evolved a sort of 6th sense where he can see the energy/lifeforce of the machines. He has evolved this power in the real world just as he has evolved the same power in the Matrix - to see the code.

Just as humans create a residual self image (mental projection of your digital self) in the matrix so do machines create an image in the real world. It is there aura, their life force. It has nothing to do with a Matrix or anything to do with how they view each other or how they communicate.

what do you think

Starbuck

what im trying to say is that the machine matrix, is totally different from the human matrix. It is just a construct, where machine programs and processes can travel freely. Its the world that programs and processes live outside the matrix. The source is this virtual machine world.

thoughts?

hi,

I was reading the posts and replay, but so far you are far away from the through...
5000 years ago a man called boudah understood this question, so he found a way out of the matrix.
So what is the matrix...is just the world that lies in front of you or exactly 2 worlds...the real and the hidden (consious and inconsious).
Why do you think that the pils were red and bleu? red represents communism and bleu liberalisme...communist countries (and socialists by same color) lives in a real world very harsh and terrible...as bad as Zion....liberalism is like to be in US...or were neo was before he took the pils far from reallity of this world everything looks great and possible...unreal sometimesm of course full with agents...(I like you Mr Smith)

Anyway, understand that the realilty doesn't exist and the only reality is our mind...we are continously fighting against ourselfs...to become free from us and our ego...the day that you will reach this state, you will understand that we can all communicate via our brain and dreams... we are all one ....that's god...the mainframe needs to be disconnected.
how?... read how boudah was capable of doing this... and you will be free...

Peace.