»The K.I.S.S. Principle_M A X I M U M_A N S W E R S«

I also agree with this. It just makes sense.


WitM

Thank you WITM.

I found even more proof that the following are all separate places:

1. Matrix
2. Real World (Machine City and Zion)
3. Machine World

Quote:

Neo: Are there other programs like you? Oracle: Oh, well, not like me, but...look. See those birds? At some point a program was written to govern them. A program was written to watch over the trees, and the wind, sunrise and sunset. There are programs running all over the place. The ones doing their job, doing what they were meant to do are invisible, you'd never even know they were here. But the other ones, well, you hear about them all the time. Neo: I've never heard of them. Oracle: Oh, of course you have. Every time you've heard someone say they saw a ghost, or an angel. Every story you've ever heard about vampires, werewolves, or aliens. It's the system assimilating some program that's doing something they're not supposed to be doing. Neo: Programs hacking programs. Why? Oracle: They have their reasons, but usually a program chooses exile when it faces deletion. Neo: And why would a program be deleted?Oracle: Maybe it breaks down. Maybe a better program is created to replace it, happens all the time. And when it does, a program can either choose to hide here, or return to the source. Neo: The machine mainframe.

Look at the portions in bold formatting in the dialogue above.

1. "It's the system assimilating some program"---> This is the Matrix system "absorbing" an exile from the Machine World system---after it is smuggled into the Matrix system from the Machine World system by the Trainman.
2. "Programs hacking programs."---> This is about programs such as Keymaker and Sati (originally operating in the Machine World) who are hacking the "other program"--the Matrix program--and thus entering it through the Traiman's "hacking" channel in order to avoid deletion in the Machine World.
3. "...program can either choose to hide here, or return to the source." ---> This means that when faced with deletion, a program can either smuggle over to the Matrix and "hide here"--"here" is the Matrix (where Neo and Oracle are sitting...) OR return to the "source"--in which case, the "source" may mean "the melting pot" or the "factory" or the "source of all programs."

Neo is the sum of a bunch of remainders of equations which run the matrix.

The matrix tries to predict wht people will choose based on the odds ect, but they can't always get it right. This is because of emotions. Machines can't equate the randomness of Human emotion because it it only human.

Quote:

the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason - an emotion that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth.

Machines dont have the randomness of emotion and can obly base the matrix on logic and reason.

So Neo is the eventuaity of this problem right? Neo isn't the anomaly, hes the result of an anomaly which is caused by emotion. the very essence of human existance.

Everytime the matrix messes up with its predicted equation for how someone will react to a certain situation (because of love hate ect.) a remainder is left over, a glitch is the system. Neo is the accumilation of these glitches which allow him to do the things he can do.

This is just an idea what do you guys think?

Even more interesting....

Neo is the sum of a "remainder".

Dictionary.com states

Quote:

The quantity or sum that is left after subtraction, or after any deduction.

a deduction on dictionary.com is

Quote:

The process of reasoning in which a conclusion follows necessarily from the stated premises; inference by reasoning from the general to the specific

Neo is the accumilation of the quantities left over from The process of reasoning in which a conclusion follows necessarily from the stated premises.

The real question is qhy does Neo know about the matrix before he meets morpheus and everyone? How does Trinity loving Neo have anything to do with Neo coming back to life? Did the machines create Neo on purpose to be the one?If we can answer this question we will be one step closer to solving the riddle of the matrix!

no, he returned to the source anyway via the machine mainframe and the
rise of the anomoly is inevitable and isn't stopped by the one not returning
to the source anyway. 5 predecessors.... 5 senses.... matrix describes....senses... 6th sense.... paranormal....telekenesis....stop machines in machine world....only 6th one returns to mainframe....each REVOLUTION is 5 predecessors that take door on right followed by 6th who takes door on left. Revolution only complete by return to MAINFRAME, yet its also the source but it needs to be via the machine world, not the matrix and will only happen if neo has a trinity as reason to take left door. his 5 predecessors didn't have a lover... love could be the tapistry to the sixth sense of the sixth one.

Deep, most of the points you made make a lot of sense,but I'm not sure about the last one, as you interpret well that part of the conversation but you ignored the first Oracle paragraph you quoted.

Quote:

Neo: Are there other programs like you? Oracle: Oh, well, not like me, but...look. See those birds? At some point a program was written to govern them. A program was written to watch over the trees, and the wind, sunrise and sunset. There are programs running all over the place. The ones doing their job, doing what they were meant to do are invisible, you'd never even know they were here. But the other ones, well, you hear about them all the time

.
Oracle specifically refers to birds that they are seeing, so the programs she reffers to are from the same place they are in, so she is reffering to matrix programs, not "machine world" programs.

That's right--the programs that are governing the birds are "legally posted" to the Matrix environment--in other words--they are in the Matrix because the A.I. wants them to be there. Probably originally created (by the Source?)in the Machine World, just like Smith in M-1 and other agents--they have been "stationed" in the Matrix environment. None of these "law-abiding" programs ever came to the Matrix via the Trainman.

However, within the Matrix, there are some programs that are "hiding." These are those that used the Trainman channel to "smuggle over" to the Matrix environment from the Machine World environment where these "no-longer-useful" programs were facing deletion.

Ok so I am back with some more K.I.S.S perspective...

Recall the Bane episode. Smith "copies" onto Bane. What essentially happens is that Bane's "mental projection" changes to "Smith." For all practical purposes, at that moment, Bane "thinks" he is Smith... And Bane/Smith is brought back into the real world in that state.

The important point to note is that Bane is now Smith, BUT only one instance of Smith, not in any way representative of the Smith collective (Star Trek anyone?)

Therefore, what happens to Bane, happens to just one instance of Smith--Bane dies, and with him "dies" one of the several Smiths. All others continue to "exist" inside the Matrix.

Similarly...

Towards the end of REVOLUTIONS, when Smith clones/infects Neo, at that moment, Neo's mental projection changes to "Smith." Neo may be strong, but the fact remains that he is now Smith. The fact ALSO remains that he is just one instance of Smith, not the entire Smith collective.

So, ladies and gentlemen, what happens to this Neo/Smith should not in any way affect any other Smith!

Therefore, even if (per one theory) Deus Ex Machina KILLS Neo, then like in the Bane episode, he is killing just one Smith! How come all other Smiths were destroyed too?

And, even if Neo sacrificed himself, his sacrifice should have "killed" only the "Neo/Smith" Smith, not all the others?

There's definitely something else that finally saw Smith being eradicated... he was led into a trap, some trap... that affected all Smiths...

Was it that somehow after Neo was Smith-ed, then all the infected people, programs, agents, etc., acted like Neo in the first movie's end, and cut off the Smith shells they were forced to "wear?"

I mean how was the entire Smith population wiped out?

And, if earlier in RELOADED, Smith had actually cloned Neo, would that too have destroyed the entire Smith population that existed at that time?

The trap thing is strong... even Smith smelled a rat in REVOLUTIONS and wouldn't willingly clone Neo till he was instigated by Neo himself. That one action somehow affected the entire Smith population, though logically (especially with the Bane episode in perspective) it shouldn't have...

I think that all the Smiths are a single entity. Its like a body. When Smith/Bane was killed, it was just a PART of the body (say, like the hand). When Smith cloned Neo, Smith was directly connected to the source. All the Smiths have connection between themselves. A part of the Smith (cloned Neo) established a connection to the source. So all the Smiths are connected to the source. So the source was successfull in deleting all the Smiths. Its like destroying the whole body. (Just my opnion, not sure...)

Hey, long time no see :--)

Deep wrote:

Hey, long time no see :--)

...No Kidding! nice to see you, scientheist!

Deep, your thoughts are well-researched, and well-displayed. I agree with nearly all of what you have said thus far, as my own musings have led me to the same conclusions. ...Except for the Smith thing. I agree with scientheist. Neo is the ONE; Smith is the MANY.

The neoPlatonist Plotinus (an initiate of the Mysteries, and therefore a Pagan gnostic) uses the analogy of a circle: The universal One Consciousness of the Mystery tradition is represented by the centre of the circle -- by definition, only ONE point can be the centre. This ONE is connected by innumerable radii to the circumference; in the gnostic tradition, these radii are Psyche -- specifically, the psyches of each and every one of us -- connected to the innumerable points on the circumference of the circle, which signify each human body. So the Circle becomes the allegory for all of Human existence; we exist physically on the circumference, our psyches connect us to the Universal ONE Consciousness at the center.

(Now I will repeat what I have offered a few times on these forums as analogy:) When Neo (the ONE) fought with Smith (the MANY), it was like the Center of the Circle trying to fight the Circumference. This cannot end in victory for either party; if either the Center or the Circumference of a Circle is annihilated, you no longer have a Circle, by definition. The only solution, as Neo finally figured out, was for the MANY to merge with the ONE. This is the Wachowskis' clever retelling of the Goddess myths of many cultures and traditions, and the lost teachings of the Mysteries found. When the body (mind) reunites through the psyche (soul) with the ONE Consciousness, Gnosis/Nirvana/Enlightenment/Christ's 'Kingdom of Heaven' is attained.

Smith could not have 'Smithed' Neo in Reloaded. Neo wasn't ready to die, remember? Only when Neo was ready did he let Smith take him. So, only when you (we, all of us) are ready, can you become one with the ONE. ...It's a Mystery; I don't expect anyone to accept this for what it is.... All I can tell you is that the symbolism may be more important than the plot at this point. Although, the plot is cleverly complete, as well. Notice that there is a surge through Neo's body in the real world before Smiths start to blow up, coming apparently from Deus ex Machina. Perhaps DeM sent an antivirus into Neo/Smith through Neo's body, which spread through the Smith Consciousness like wildfire, destroying them all in short order!

Anyway, well done, Deep.

Dudes, check the date. Scientheist wrote that in February.

A pity that I didn't meet that Scientheist while he was still there, looks like we share the same kind of idea.

Smiths are like channels...all connected to each others..within each others ... when you kill a smith (whatever this smith is , the oracle smith or neo smith) you only close a channel,destroy it ..when u do so in real world..the rest of the channels still running..but the link to this channel you've closed would be broken...

instead try to hack in one of these many channel...if you BROKE into one you Broke into them all.. you could spread within them..to all of them...shut all of them down , in this case you are not shutting down one channel..but you are destroying the system of these channels that work on.

its a simple explination for the body/hand theory which i agree on and couldnt explain it like that simple before ...

Smith was like an independent network that wasnt connected to the source or any other program..thats how the machines couldnt delete him ... neo was somekinda of that too .. but lets not get into that for now..lets focus on what does really matter

when the machines pluged neo in the matrix...for the first time the machines could put a hand on NEO , neo let smith copy him self into him (remember the difference between overwriting and copying) smith made neo another smith , that neoSmith was actually connected to the Machine ,,,the machine didnt DELETE the NEOsmith .. all of smiths are connected and they became connected to the machine too this time..it would be so easy for the machine to destroy the system of this network.

It's 2005 and I am back :--)

Long time no see!

if the one is seen as god.
why would the machines make this so?
and why would neo end the war on such an unholy number as 6?

you will find that on neo' apartment door you will see the number 101.

1 stands for his life as neo
0 stands for his death or beginning
1 stands for his next life

you will find that there is either 1 version of the matrix, or it is never ending. i find it hard to believe that they would end it on 6

6 stands for the devil and sins of man..

six is a bad number.

if they ended revolutions off by saying that it was the 10th version, that would make sense..

1 neo's life
0 neos death

there would be nothing after that, that may be the end of the war.

this is another way to look at it..

these are the versions of the matrix..

matrix1 and 2 1+2 = 3 3 is the trinity and divine perfection
matrix3 and 4 3+4 = 7 god rested on the 7th day
matrix5 and 6 5+6 = 11 1+1 = 2 this means that there are only 2 ones
matrix7 and 8 7+8 = 15 1+5 = 6 sins of man, the devil
matrix9 and 10 9+10 = 19 1+9 =10 which means completion and numbers that start again..

try and figure it out

THE_FIRST_ONE wrote:

if the one is seen as god. why would the machines make this so? and why would neo end the war on such an unholy number as 6?

You say you find it hard to believe the matrix would end at an unholy number...

I am simply stating facts (dialogues) from the movie, and using those, I am actually saying that it was the 8th version they ended with (not 6th).

(Note - remember that your interpretation of numerology may not be the same as everyone else's -- and that includes the moviemakers' .)

And by the way, it is the architect himself who says "this is the 6th version."

===Here's a repeat of some notes===

1. The first two versions of the matrix were “monumental failures.” However, in their failures, there was no role of the Oracle or of any anomaly. The “plugged” people (the initial “crops”) simply “rejected” the “perfection of no suffering”—all of them died or had to be killed… "entire crops were lost”


2. The Oracle was not active in the first two versions of the matrix. It was not until the third version that she became involved and proposed an “almost perfect solution” where “99%” of all people tested “accepted” the matrix program.

Though the Oracle’s solution helped avoid the “mass rejection” by the “plugged/grown humans” (“crops”) that happened in the first two versions, the solution was “fundamentally flawed” and this “flaw” or “anomaly” resulted in a “minority” of the crops (plugged and cultivated humans) continuing to reject the matrix program.

This also means that NEO or THE ONE or THE ANOMALY appeared for the first time in the third version of the matrix.

CHEAT NOTE: Recall the Architect’s dialog:
"The matrix is older than you know. I prefer to count from the emergence of one integral anomaly to emergence of the next, in which case, this is the 6th version.”

<-- Clearly, the architect prefers to count the versions from since when Neo or the anomaly appeared the first time---this is not a count of the actual version (which is more likely the 8th) but the number of times the anomaly has appeared (6).

hi deep.

i am simply going on biblical numerology..
there is other forms of numerology, but they only sometimes make sense.

i have another theory on the one and the versions of the matrix.
101 can mean ONE infinite ONE..as 0 stands for infinite or nothing. or it can stand for eternal or cycle..

i believe that i have come up with the theory behind all the confusion.

the man born inside the matrix is symboled as 1
neo is also symboled as 1

this is how the rotation goes, if there really is a rotation.

1/101/101/101/101/

the first 1 symbol from left to right is the first man born inside the matrix. the second 1 is neo or the second one.
the 0 is neos death or the one. and the / is the start of the cycle or the end, or and the end.

you see, it can go on forever. or neo got lucky on the sixth version.
you will find that i believe that there is only one neo. and only one man born inside.
you will find that neo would have to die for this cycle to work.
neo cant be the man born inside the matrix on the next cycle.

the architect is lying, and revolutions and reloaded are a lie.
dont believe him or the movies.

you should either dismiss what i am saying, or dont bother with deciphering the trilogy. you should only bother with the first movie

I am sorry, but ZERO is NOT INFINITY
Basic maths will tell you that.

What Biblical numerology are you talking about? And have you studied all forms of numerology that you say that non-Biblical numerolgy does not always make sense?

Your 1/101/101... honestly, what is all that about? All your thoughts and theories appear to be without any solid foundation at all... For example, what evidence do you see in the movies that supports any of your theories?

Your comment "Don't believe him or the movies," is so perplexing... what exactly is your point?

An invitation to all new visitors to an old thread -- click below for "The K.I.S.S. Principle_M A X I M U M_A N S W E R S"

It's 2006! How time flies!

This is an invitation to all visitors to an old but passionate thread from 2003 -- click here matrix-explained.com... for "The K.I.S.S. Principle_M A X I M U M_A N S W E R S"

Invitation extended again
Read the first message in this topic... Cheers!

intell wrote:

matrix-explained.com...

Yes, I wrote that quite some time back

Meanwhile I was watching Alfred Hitchcock's Vertigo -- its opening is very very similar to the opening sequence in the first Matrix movie.

That's a long time spent watching a movie.

Now if you were filming one...

There's been a lot of discussion since then.