»why is Neo so dumb?«

Well, he was obviously smart enough to understand what the Architect was saying, so he must have more brains than you think.

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Architect: Hello, Neo. Neo: Who are you? Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and though the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant. Neo: Why am I here? Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which, despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably... here. Neo: You haven't answered my question. Architect: Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

So, unless the other Ones was super-dumb, he is smart(er). Besides, I've given proof for every point I've made, but you do not. Where is your proof on:

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nah...i think Neo's just too dumb to wrap his brain around what his visions are telling him.

Hmmm?

Also, something else. He was smart enough to get out of the matrix. Most people aren't even aware. Remember?

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Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level.

He was also smart enough to get Morpheus out of the government lobby in M1. Trinity and Tank were going to unplug him (because the didn't think that there was any other way), but Neo found another way to save him.

your proofs aren't really PROOF. i understood the Architect conversation the first time through, and i'm not all the bright myself.

and what was his grand strategy for getting Morpheus? "guns. lots of guns." wow...escuse me, Wile E!

getting out of the Matrix is more the will to disbelieve than it is smarts.

and as for him being too dumb to understand his own visions, you'll never accept my proof (as i refuse yours) because the basis for BOTH is based on OPINION. i say the Smith/Bane scene was a vision, you say it wasn't. neither of us is "in the know", so opine away.

honestly, how far into the Neo/Bane scene on the Logos were you practically screaming for Neo to do something? how far into it did you think that Neo should have friggin' KNOWN it was Smith in there? i think that anyone that believes that it should have taken that long for the light bulb to finally blink itself on may have intelligence issues themselves.

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your proofs aren't really PROOF. i understood the Architect conversation the first time through, and i'm not all the bright myself.

That's actually quite funny.

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and what was his grand strategy for getting Morpheus? "guns. lots of guns." wow...escuse me, Wile E!

No, that wasn't. That's what he NEEDED, not what his plan was.

getting out of the Matrix is more the will to disbelieve than it is smarts.
But understanding that it is not real WHILE in the Matrix IS smart. He didn't really know, but he UNDERSTOOD that something was wrong. That it wasn't real. It didn't FEEL real (again, what is real? How do you define real?)

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and as for him being too dumb to understand his own visions, you'll never accept my proof (as i refuse yours) because the basis for BOTH is based on OPINION.

Very true. You're right about that one. So in a way, we're both right and both wrong. But where do you get that oppinion FROM. That's what I'm wondering. That's what I mean by
"proof."

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honestly, how far into the Neo/Bane scene on the Logos were you practically screaming for Neo to do something? how far into it did you think that Neo should have friggin' KNOWN it was Smith in there? i think that anyone that believes that it should have taken that long for the light bulb to finally blink itself on may have intelligence issues themselves.

It was more in the fight that it got me. I was thinking, "No, Neo! DON'T GET UP! NO! NO! NOOooo! Crap. He got up!"
But I personally agree with this:

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In the case of Bane. Yes it took Neo a while to realise that it was Smith, but imagine how inconceivable that must be. A machine inside a human's mind. It's easy for us to say as we saw Smith copy himself onto Bane and then answer his call. And then there is the doubt that if you understand what you don't understand how

Here is some things that bring us back up to the REAL topic, not to morons (me included!) fighting over whether or not Neo has an IQ above or two or not just because he didn't know about Bane/Smith for a looong, long time in the Revolutions fight.

1. (From Mambo)

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"Neo saw Smith copy himself onto Bane...which is how we saw it. one of Neo's visions..." If that is the case then he would have known already that Smith was inside Bane, or that something was wrong. I'm saying his vision wasa either partial, or he felt something was wrong but couldn't actually see what was happening

And later (from MATRIX_MATT)

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That is because once Smith entered the real world, Neo was awakened by the presence of the Smith. It wasn't a vision, they were just showing us that Neo felt something when Smith got out of the Matrix.

MY POINT IS THIS: ISN'T THIS EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS WHAT WE SAID BEFORE?

2. (from Mambo)

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Grendelvs wrote: you do realize that we are BOTH assuming, right? I see what you are saying, but what is more likely? If Neo had seen what we saw, he would have known who Bane really was in the first place

And then later, from Grendelvs:

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because the basis for BOTH is based on OPINION. i say the Smith/Bane scene was a vision, you say it wasn't. neither of us is "in the know", so opine away.

WE ALREADY SAID THIS IN THE BEGINNING.


I guess the point I am trying to make is this. We've spent WAAAY to much time going around and around in circles, too wrapped up in our own oppinions. Which takes me to my next post...[/quote]

Here are some questions that bring us back up to the REAL topic, not to morons (me included!) fighting over whether or not Neo has an IQ above or two or not just because he didn't know about Bane/Smith for a looong, long time in the Revolutions fight.

1. Why is Neo dumb?
(explain answers through script sections)

2. Why is Neo not dumb?
(explain answers through script sections)

3. Is Bane being taken over by Smith a scene, or a vision by Neo?
(explain answers through script sections)

4. If the above IS a vision, then why does Neo not know that Bane is controlled by Smith? Why the handshake?

5. Is #3 a partial vision?


6. Why does Neo take SOOOO LOOONG to realize “the truth” about Smith/Bane in Revolutions? Could it be:
a. just a gimmick to build up tension
b. lack of intelligence
c. disbelieve or denial
d. other
(explain answers through script sections)

7. Does “Dumbness” have to do with fighting style? Why does Neo continue fighting (although this question is basically answered in the script when Neo says “Because I choose to.”)
(explain answers through script sections)

8. Why do Splinterinyourmind and Grendelvs hate each other so damn much?
(explain answers through script sections)

Okay. So now we have a bit more organized space to breath. Let us continue now arguing.

Okay. Grendey. The only reason why I don't think that your vision-Neo thing is true (although we'll never really know, will we?) is because of these reasons. That's ALL.

1. if that was a vision, what else was a vision? Could the whole MATRIX be a vision? Is it mesceline? How do we know that Neo's not just going to "wake up" again?

2. If Neo was dumb, why would fate choose him to be the One? Yeah, I know, messiah's don't have to be smart, but then wouldn't Morpheus loose faith in him? Wouldn't Neo, if he was dumb, continue to make stupid mistakes again and again and again until Morpheus would be like, "Screw it. I don't GIVE a care anymore.” And Trinity would say, “You know, Neo, I don’t care if you’re good looking and are supposedly “the One,” I’m going to go date Ghost instead.”

3. Why would he shake Bane’s hand? I know, I know, I’ve stated this about 2 zillion times, but I STILL don’t know, and there are no good explanations for it.

4. If the whole Bane thing was one of Neo’s visions, then Neo would know that Smith had corrupted Bane. If Neo knew that Bane was corrupted, why wouldn’t he “play dumb” before they fight?

K. So can you explain why, despite all of these inconsistancies, you're theory is valid? Because I can't really understand where your coming from on these levels. Are we talking about why Neo is/not dumb? Or why Smith taking over Bane was/not a vision? Hmmm?

Splintey