»THE MEROVINGIAN HAS TWO PURPOSES IN THE MATRIX«

The Merovingian is a program deeply rooted in the matrix and serves two purposes, one symbolic of Hell and one Symbolic of Heaven.

Purpose one:

The Merovingian is what his name implies. The Merovingian’s were a line of kings that carried the blood line of Christ. They were the keepers of the Holy Grail. The key Maker is that representation of the Holy Grail. The Holy Grail/Key Maker is a powerful object which brings enlightenment and is associated with an ascent into heaven (the source).

Purpose two:

The Merovingian is married to Persephone. The Persephone of mythology is married to Hades the god of the underworld (a close approximation for Lucifer) and ruler of the dead. The Trainman works for the Merovingian. He ferries obsolete programs from the real world to the matrix. The Trainman represents the Ferryman who ferries the dead across the river Styx to the underworld ruled by Hades. Thus the Merovingian is a representation of the devil in this aspect. He was cast out of the machine city and took refuge in the Matrix. He brings other programs into “his dominion”. Programs that have no purpose (dead Programs) come to him for protection. Hades rules the dead, assisted by various (demonic) helpers. These helpers are representative of the vampires, Werewolves and the ghosts that assist the Merovingian.

Thoughts

Starbuck

Your explanation is logical and very well thought-out, but what about Persephone? It would seem that she should have another part to play, although the link to the underworld makes sense.

I also thought about something the Merovingian says in M2:
"Her time is almost up."
This is a reference to the Oracle, but could this have anything to do with the Trainman?

Hmmm.... I dont know. What do you think her purpose is?

Expand on your theories on the Merovingian and Perseophone and the trainman.

I have always wondered where the Merovingian came from and what his purpose was before he became who he is now. He seems to be the Matrix version of a black marketer and crime boss. Of course this is in the literal sense of the matrix. I believe his philosophical is as I described above. It seems that every thing done, everything said and every person in the movies has a double meaning (sometimes triple).

What are your thoughts.

Starbuck

I think that Persephone somehow has control over the Merovingian, or is more dominant.
Think, they both have an (short, but nonetheless) affair with another, and the Merovingian suffers for it. Also, in M3, we meet the Merovingian in 'Hell Club,' which could also be a relation to Persephone, maybe she requests it was built for her? We are made to believe she is some kind of program that 'downloads' emotions, and in a club-like situation many emotions are running around.

However, I think we should ask ourselves why this is happening, there may be a small clue we missed in the movie...

I agree whole-heartedly with the 2nd purpose you give for the Merovingian, that he is the God of the Underworld/Lucifer. However, the first purose you give as keeper of the Grail, I'm having some trouble with. I think, given all the symbolism in the movies, if he were meant to be the Grail, the W. Brothers would have given more clues to that effect like he would be wearing some kind of Cup on his shirt or he would have a name that means Grail or he would have a limp like the Fisher King. The symbols in the Matrix, although hidden, are usually pretty straightfoward.

However, in support of your point, that quest to find the keymaker is very "crusade"-like. There is also an Arthurian flair to the movie, but I belive that that is because the King Arthur legend is also modeled after Christ. The best point in your favor is that I believe the Merovingian kings claim to have some relation to the Fisher King who is the keeper of the Grail.

I'll have to watch Reloaded more closely to see if there are any clues.

My speculation is based on one version of the holy grail story in which the Merovingians were keepers of the Grail.

To them the grail represents eternal life through a profound connection to Christ. This is facilitated by partaking of the cup and realized by an assention to heaven.

So to put this in the terms of the matrix the Keymaster is the "Vessel" that Neo must utilize to gain access to the source (heaven).

The crusade like quest for him I never thought of though.

I Still feel he is the representation of the grail but you are right about the symbolism. The movies are usually pretty straight forward with their symbolism. I have always had a problem with how the Keymaker fit into the puzzle and this is the best explaination I could come up with.

If you have a better one I would love to hear it.

Starbuck

After a quick google, I found this:

Quote:

Pwyll, father of 'Pryderi', was 'Lord of Annwn' and lame. He has often been likened to the 'Ruler of Hades' or 'Satan', later still being known in Norman-Grail legends as the 'Fisher King.' Pwyll is described by Robert de Borron in the twelfth-thirteenth-century as - 'much knew he of black art, more than a hundred times changed in his semblance.'

I'm not quite sure of all of it, but in another post about this the Merovingian has been talked about as Hades and Satan.
I think the bit concerning the Fisher is relative at the italic quote. I do not fully understand it and think I must analyse a bit more.

Definetly a clue tho, thoughts?

Just something I thought of as I hit post, in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (the one with his dad, Sean Connery) Indy must pick out of many cups which is the Holy Grail to save his dad's life. He picks an old and frail cup, this is much like the Keymaker.
Also, in addition to a post by bachsoffice, I think I do see a slight limp...

Nice work with the Keymaker being the keeper of the Holy Grail. I definitely think this one of the reasons the Wachowski's nemd him The Merovingian. Keep up the good work.

After thinking a bit more, I think this as close as we are going to get at why the Merovingian and the Keymaker are. However, I don't like the idea of the Architect being god and the Source being heaven, maybe it's just the character, but something isn't right...

Thoughts?

To quote from a "rogue" program:

Heaven and god are just words. Its the connection that they imply that has meaning.

I dont think I would call the Architect god or the source heaven. Its just that parallel the keymaker has with the grail.

Grail = path to god and heaven - Pursued in a holy quest by men.

Keymaker = path to Architect and source - pursued in a sacred quest by Neo and company.

Starbuck

Quote:

However, I don't like the idea of the Architect being god and the Source being heaven, maybe it's just the character, but something isn't right...

The Architect isn't actually symbolic of God. He is symbolic of the False God, "The Demiurge" or "Half-Maker", in Gnosticism. I'm not sure where the source fits in, but I'm pretty sure Zion or the Desert of the Real is symbolic of Heaven. It's where the human souls that are free get to go. Pretty grim, but I guess it's better than being enslaved by machines.

This doesn't really have anything to do with the topic, but I just wanted to answer Book56's question/reservation.

Thanks for clearing that up, it just didn't seem right to have such religious and philosophical meanings and then have a God figure who represents maths and science. (this is not specific so don't quote me on this) The half-God or 'wannabe' God ties in quite accurately, as you get the phrase of scientists 'playing God.'
I think the Merovingian could also be described like this, but in an opposite sense, as said by crossfade (I think)

Quote:

that the Architect and Merovingian could be two sides of the same coin almost

I think that the Architect represents a more scientific side while Merv is different (I don't want to put philosophical, I'm not sure what causality comes under)

Thoughts?[/quote]

I see the parings in the following way.

Neo and Smith - obvious one - two sides of a whole light and dark

Architect and Oracle - Architect represents order and Oracle represents Chaos. (his task is to balance the equasion and hers is to unbalance it.)

Merovingian and Seraph - Merovingian calls Seraph the prodical son and Judas. They have obviously had dealing in the past and at some point Seraph has gone over to the good side of the fight.

thoughts?

Starbuck

The Seraph vs. Merovingian pairing is interesting. I feel that it is actually more representative of the Order vs. Chaos pairing.

I think the Architect vs. Oracle is Reason vs. Emotion or Logic vs. Intuition.

Hey, where did Mero call Seraph a "Judas"? That's an interesting proof (kinda) that the Merovingian is the Devil. A fallen angel would probably consider the other angels as traitors.

However, the Seraphim were not the most owerful order of angels. They are lower on the heirarchy than the four Archangels: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Suriel. So Seraph may just be a powerful foe of the Merovingian, not necessarily his Antithesis. Lucifer's antithesis was Michael, General of God's army, who defeated the rebellious angels and cast them out of Heaven.

If there's more to come with the Matrix, it's possible that we'll see a "Michael" program to counter the Merovingian. But that's probably just a pipe dream.

You might be right with those pairings.

Merv called Seraph a judas just before the fight scene upstairs in club hel when trinity ends up putting a gun to Mervs head.

I think there is a pretty clear definition of the relationships of most of the pairings but I am facinated by the relatinship between Merv and Seraph. I also wonder why they call him "old wingless"?

the Seraphim were lower order angels with 3 pairs of wings. That makes 6 wings. This is the 6th version of the matrix that contains "The One". do these have any corelation?

any thoughts?

Starbuck

Merovingian and Persephone are the Adam and Eve of the matrix. They were created by the machines to understand love. More detailed explanation in this thread...

I've read that thread on the Merovingian and Persephone being Adam and Eve. It was very interesting. However, I don't believe that it is so convincing that it is absolutely right. The Merovingian as Lucifer has many many more parallels and supports. However, I don't entirely discount the whole "Adam and Eve" thing, it's an interesting perspective.

The main problem I see is that Adam and Eve were people and Mero and Pers are programs. Also, people disbelieving the first matrix brought it down, kinda like Adam and Eve got themselves expelled out of Eden for eating from the Tree of Knowledge. I could see the Merovingian and Persephone as some kind of Anti-Adam and Anti-Eve, a twisted program version of each. Kind of like the Penguin was the Anti-Moses in Batman Returns. And to explore baser human emotions might have been the Merovingian's or Persephone's purpose, that was a good idea. Still, not enough evidence to go off making grandiose statements that this is absolutely the correct answer.

Scienthiest,

Your thread on the explanation of the Mero and Persephone has several unexplained connections.

What about the trainman? (Mervs transporter of the dead (useless programs) to the underworld)

Why was persephone not named Eve?

Why are Cain and Abel vampire/werewolves? These guys are Mervs henchmen and obviously don’t have any kind of father/mother-son relationship with Merv and Persephone. If anything I would think that they represent the original sin of man being passed onto the sons of man. this causes them to be separated from god. thus Cain and Abel are separated from "god" the source and/or the Architect and reside with Merv.

Persephone does not represent love but jealousy. She was Jealous of Trinity. Cain was Jealous of Abel and killed him thus Persephone (jealously) kills Abel and sends Cain off to wander (go find Merv).


Starbuck

If, in fact, Merv and Perseph are supposed to be parallels to Adam and Eve, and Seraph is supposed to be a guardian angel, or even if Merv and Perseph are Hades/Persephone in the Matrix, and the Architect plays the role of god, and Neo contains a code that he is supposed to reinsert to the Source (thus making him, part machine), it seems like the role of the major players of the Christian religion is played mostly by machines..

is this some social commentary? Is modern Christianity all a creation of the system?

My answer: yes.


but it can be seen from another angle, as well.. the trilogy preaches tolerance. Accept the fact that the machines are living, loving, and caring beings; as are humans, and we should treat them as such.

quite a deep message... Think about that next time you throw something at the TV

Err,

This is just the interpretations from a christian point of view. You also have to include Buddhism, islam etc. While some roles are portrayed by machines many others are portrayed by man.

Neo - christ
Cypher - Judas
Morpheus, Neo, Trinity - whole Trinity of father, son and holy spirit.

you cant limit your interpretations to one religion though. So I would say no to your question on social commentary. Even though you may see this in the movie and that is not necessarily wrong it is much more than this.

Starbuck

I agree with u guys on Merv being Satan and the train-man being ferry man and Persephone being daughter of mother-earth etc. But I was trying to explain the origin of Merovingian and Persephone and their behaviour. Merovingian being Satan is very obvious, u can find that discussion all over the net and thats the first thought anyone would have when they try to analyze Merv. But why was Merovingian "like Neo" once ? Did he have any purpose ? He was against those who work for the welfare of the matrix (like Oracle, Keymaker etc.). His henchmen also fought the agents. Why would they do it if they were acting to their purpose ? Clearly, Mervongian and pals are rogue programs. Merovingian had a purpose, but he strayed from that purpose. That thread abt Merovingian being Adam and Persephone being Eve was meant to explain their origin and behaviour. There were some weak references to Adam and Eve, but there is no extensive reference to it. I agree with what rest of the guys say abt Merv and Pers... Merovingian became Satan(though he was good once), but he was'nt created as a Satan.

starbuck wrote:

Err, This is just the interpretations from a christian point of view. You also have to include Buddhism, islam etc. While some roles are portrayed by machines many others are portrayed by man. Neo - christ Cypher - Judas Morpheus, Neo, Trinity - whole Trinity of father, son and holy spirit. you cant limit your interpretations to one religion though. So I would say no to your question on social commentary. Even though you may see this in the movie and that is not necessarily wrong it is much more than this. Starbuck

I don't know enough about the Religions in general; I am not very religious..

but don't most religions preach the same thing?


Live Well, be good to others = happy eternity (though it takes more than one life in buddhism

Be bad = unhappy eternity / no eternal life



anyways... I just like to stir up controversy sometimes, henceforth I will limit myself

Starbuck’s post makes sense, yet there is a little disconnect. The problem with looking at Merovingian in the traditional ‘Devil’ perspective is that he is largely ignored in the key battle in matrix. At best, he is a troublemaker, a hurdle that is easily overcome. He, unlike Mr. Smith, largely sticks to his own little domain, the restaurant, club and the train etc. and doesn’t really interfere in Neo’s final mission

So, a different way of looking at this can be to say that all the characters are part of our one consciousness. Neo is the part in us that strives to merge with whole divine. Mero represent that aspect which is lust for wealth and power. It is that part of intellect concerned only about cause and effect. Keymaker represents the resources (tools, techniques and time), just the means to an end (as Mero puts it). Persp is the beautiful object. Mero, the desire objectifies the beauty. Mero, the lustful intellect, captures the resources (our time and energy). Trainman in M3 can be looked at as the wretchedness/misery/suffering that can connect one to Mero’s world

Time is the key, for Neo to reach the source. He needs to free the Keymaker to be able to reach the source. It is kind of saying that we need to relieve our resources and time from pursuits of wealth, objects and power and use them for the purpose of spiritual attainments.

The chase is also very significant, as these henchmen (all the vices) of Mero are relentless and a part of the chase is against the traffic. It might be there to signify that spiritual pursuits involves this chase and sometimes against the established norms of society.

Mero is a known evil that can be overcome. But the real battle is with the ego, the part that blinds us. That part is Mr. Smith/Bane. As Mr. Smith, the ego says “me, me and me too”

Someone mentioned way, way earlier on about Persephone saying Neo was once like the Merovingian. I think she is referring to their past love and Merv's loyalty towards Trinity. She then goes on to say how such a thing is not meant to last, you could argue that she is implying that such an intense love could not possibly hold, although I believe otherwise.
Secondly, I remember when Trin, Morpheus and Seraph go after the train man and they have a little chase. In comparison to greek myth (I'm not going over the character relations again, as it's been done to death) could it be that Seraph is no longer or has never been welcome in hell?
This is intwining the two separate stories (Matrix and Greek myth) together somewhat, but it seems to make some sense to me. If this is so, what does the Oracle represent?