»Going to keep posting this til someone gives me a clue«

There proably is an easy answer to this question, how do we know Neo is dead?

In Reloaded the Architect said Neo was the mathematical equation to balance out of the "subconscious" free will of leaving in the Matrix. He was a remainder to balance out that other number.

So they no longer will have "subconscious" free will, they will have a conscious choice(according to the ending)

So why would the machines need to balance anything out? Not everyone is leaving the Matrix, (Not sure how that works but thats another thread entirely) So they'd still have power.

that's it right there...there is no more NEED for a One. the equation discussed in Reloaded was changed drastically by 01's agreement to release people that wished it.

So because there is no more NEED, the One is gone?

So Neo might not be dead but the One concept is gone?

right.

only, i think Neo IS dead. when 01 used him as a cleaner for Smith, i think it cooked him from the inside-out. i think that Neo had the make-up to be able to sustain that kind of power for long enough to clean Smith, which is why 01 needed Neo to do it, instead of using one of the other 6 billion humans plugged into the Matrix.

so yes...there's no need for the One right now. and Neo's dead.

i think.

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There proably is an easy answer to this question, how do we know Neo is dead?

My answer would simply be, Because he's a human (isn't he?) who was taken over by Smith. As far as we can tell, no humans survive the Smith takeover. (Sati does - she's lying on the street after all the Smiths die. The Oracle does - apparently that's her lying on the ground after all the Smiths die. But they're AI's, not humans. And notice that *most* of the Smiths, who presumably all took over humans, explode into nothingness. What happens to the humans they took over? Probably dead.)

Combine that with the fact that we see the machines ceremonially lift and carry away his limp body, and there's no good reason to believe that Neo is alive. There's also the meta-explanation that the W. brothers loaded this trilogy with pseudo-Biblical and religious symbolism; the parallels between Jesus and "Neo" almost *require* that he be killed off at the end.

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In Reloaded the Architect said Neo was the mathematical equation to balance out of the "subconscious" free will of leaving in the Matrix. He was a remainder to balance out that other number. So they no longer will have "subconscious" free will, they will have a conscious choice(according to the ending) So why would the machines need to balance anything out?

It seems to me that here you touch on and confuse two different issues, (1) is Neo, the person, still alive? and (2) will there be another "The One", i.e. will the machines need to use the "The One" trick to maintain control from now on? What you seem to be missing is that these are separate issues.

I agree with you that because of the new arrangement, the whole "The One" thing is unnecessary. The machines no longer need to put a "The One" into the Matrix to balance things out; things will be stably "balanced" by the fact of Neo's sacrifice + the machines' promise to free humans who want to be freed.

However, that has no bearing on whether Neo the person is actually alive or dead. All other things being equal, he could be either. But all other things *aren't* equal; we saw the Smith virus take over his Matrix avatar, and explode, and then Neo's limp body get carried away. And even if the machines *did* need to continue using the "The One" subterfuge for control, even *that* wouldn't mean Neo is still alive. Neo is a person. "The One" is an *idea*. Presumably the "The One" in all of the Matrix iterations have actually been *different people*. (I know there are various other theories - i.e. Neo is a program, etc., but I'm trying to keep it simple.)

I assume that if there came a day where the ceasefire broke down, and the Oracle decided that a new "The One" was needed to control the rebels again, what would happen is that a fetus would be selected to be "The One" and his brain/body would be installed with whatever appropriate software/hardware is required. I believe this is what happened to Thomas Anderson for example. Thomas Anderson was "The One" in the 6th matrix iteration. It doesn't mean that "The One" in the 7th matrix iteration (if there ever is one) would have to be Thomas Anderson. Thomas Anderson is dead.[/quote]

kpucok wrote:

As far as we can tell, no humans survive the Smith takeover. (Sati does - she's lying on the street after all the Smiths die. The Oracle does - apparently that's her lying on the ground after all the Smiths die. But they're AI's, not humans. And notice that *most* of the Smiths, who presumably all took over humans, explode into nothingness. What happens to the humans they took over? Probably dead.)

the way Agents worked, they could take over and leave human bodies withough killing the host. i think that Smith kept this property.

this is supported because when people die in the Matrix or in the real world, the bodies remain behind. the streets being empty of everyone but AI's may mean that the System re-located all of the humans avatars back to where Smith got them from before re-booting the Matrix. (the AI left where they fell just means that they're not plugged into the System).

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the way Agents worked, they could take over and leave human bodies withough killing the host. i think that Smith kept this property.

It's possible, but we would still need to explain where those still-alive human avatars are after Smith "dies". Or maybe they're just plugged into the Smith-corrupted Matrix with no avatars there anymore; in Matrix terms they all "think" they're in comas. One could then guess that when the Matrix is rebooted they all feel like they've come out of their comas.

All except Neo of course, cuz he's jacked out of the Matrix when it's rebooted. I still say he's dead. But you'd be right to say I can't *prove* it.

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the streets being empty of everyone but AI's may mean that the System re-located all of the humans avatars back to where Smith got them from before re-booting the Matrix. (the AI left where they fell just means that they're not plugged into the System).

Could be. This would help explain the "so who's left in the matrix?" issue. Everyone is, except Neo. Neo was unplugged from the matrix while taken over by Smith / "in a coma". Seems to me the best you can say about yhim therefore is that his real-life body would be in a permanent coma. Maybe.