»THE RABBIT HOLE«

im puzzled as to why everyone here has the intellegence to express different dimensions of the trilogies but i havent come across anyone who sees the accuracy it has on life, history and prophesy. i (to some degree) feel the wachowski brothers pain when people as smart as yourselves dont clock on. short of talking you through the movies word for word breaking down all of the symbolic references and risking being shot, the brothers couldnt be more blatant in telling you what they are trying to say.

i guess they were right: No one can tell you what the matrix is. you must see it for yourself. im no morpheus and i cant say i have tried to stop bullets with my palm but i know for a fact that the trilogy is more informative than entertaining. i guess it falls under the catagory edutainment but the human mind has become so imprisoned that it only sees the recreational perspective of a thing unless its purely otherwise.

those who believe they know what im getting at - reply. no smart remarks or sarcasm please. lets leave this room for those who appreciate the truth behind the coded language of the movie, for those searching for knowledge, wisdom and an understanding of the 'real world'. The real Matrix.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH yeah ure in the matrix dude u cant get out it has you...

John Mirra wrote:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH yeah ure in the matrix dude u cant get out it has you...

dont tell me...

your names neo and you are here to tell the world how deep the rabbit hole really goes. right?
honestly, they'll unplug anyones these days...

Hey 555!. You can interpret the movies as you want from beginning to end, we cannot deny people from doing it, i think it is fair. Now, don't you get the filling that the movies go around human emotions and maybe reflections about human kind?

Just a question

Nayazu! you are definately on the right track. have a word with mirra. lol. cant stop long right now but let me know ur interested and ill give you what i understand of matrix. im guessing it will take a while to type (and thus read) but ill show u my theory if you show me yours. peace

ok, i'm not sure if this is the kind of stuff you meant, but it has a lot of religion in it i know that. the wachowski's used all those names for areason...it's a game i think. between the architect and the oracle. the oracle is g*d and teh architect is the devil. they are playing some gaem adn all the people in the matrix/real world are the pieces or maybe they were trying to find enlightenment and decided to tesdt it on a comp program they create...um i can't really think of anything else that i do know of cuz i bes tired....but i think when Neo defeateed smith he was making the decision, or understanding his choice, on whether to go back to the source or become and exile(this is after neo becomes smith) i think he chose to go back to the source and that's what the gold light was. i think maybe all the stuff he sees that's gold maybe stuff touched by the source? well, i cain't think of anything else right now...must sleep

Good observational skills. i must say, ts a breath of fresh air to to view posts from someone interested with more than the surface level.

from what i get, the Oracle isnt God. God uses the Oracle to talk to the resistance (Zion etc). The wachowskis have cleaverly copied one of natures most basic and concurently most poweful forces. reflection.

where you have a positive you will always find a negative. where there is hot, there has to be a cold. where there is up, there is down. where there is an On, there must also be an Off. every action is reversable. everything can be counteracted or neutralised.

Similarly, where you have the Oracle, you have the Architect. where you have the resistance, you have the agents. Neos consciousnes resonated at a higher frequency to everyone elses which made him closest to 'The Source' of all consciousness. it appears he represents the return of the messiah (Jesus) but as you know, he must have an opposite to balance out nature i.e Smith (the Agent resonating at the highest frequency).

you used an interesting analogy Trinity.
"the Architect and the Oracle are playing a game and the people inside the matrix are the pieces".

i agree with you. imagine this world or 'reality' as a gigantic chess board. imagine the devil trying to take over peoples minds by making them do things that God said not to do thus making them unwittingly oppose Gods plan. imagine the devil worked through the Architect program and made him control as many people within the matrix as he could without causing comlete destruction (everything has to appear normal to the people otherwise they will rebel). these people or 'chess pieces' are 'the Agents' of the devil.

The people inside the matrix that figure out whats going on and decide to resist the programming from the architect get unplugged and become more inclined to the suggestion from the Oracle thus making them a member of the resistance and the enemy of the Agents.

the more they unplug, the bigger the army they have to fight against the agents and the less agents there are to fight back. this means the architect has less minds to control which leaves him with less overall control of the matrix. its as simple as black and white when you know what its about. like one massive chess board.

i dont think it was coincidence that the architect was in all white and neo was in all black. i strongly believe the matrix trilogy is modern day prophesy. this world we live in is exactly like a computer when you understand about frequencies, vibrations, magnetism, electricity and motion. ill give you a bit of food for though about the world that has lied to you since the day you were born...

there are 60 seconds in a minute.
there are 60 minutes in an hour.
there are 24 hours in a day. but lets add it up...

60 secs.... 6+0= 6
60 mins.... 6+0= 6
24 hours... 2+4= 6

thats...
6
6
6

the mark of the beast. if you want to see what hell looks like dont look down, turn on your TV. look out your window. you know theres something wrong with the world. the government has too much information on our lives. too few people have too much control over the population. i know what i say seems strong because you expect the devil to be some red guy with a tail, horns and pitch fork but dont take my word for it, wait for march 2004. march is the 3rd month. 2+4=6. i must go. let me know what you think...

PEACE.

Dear 555,

I have to tell you, you sound like a somewhat intelligent person. The problem is, you're extremely pompous. People come onto these boards to express their opinions and read the viewpoints of others. Your patronizing of anyone on the boards who either doesn't agree with or understand your mysterious "if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you" approach only shows what kind of insecure childish person you are.

Now that I've expressed my opinion on you as a person, allow me to make fun of your ideas.

1) Balance in nature? Come on. A positive needs a negative to cancel out? Please. The reason there are "hot and cold" and "light and dark" is not to 'balance each other'. The sole reason is that they are the EXACT same thing, but with different levels of intensity/severity, so we, as people, need a liguistic way to express those two extremes. We might as well call them "full heat" and "no heat". Hell, if you want to get right down to it, heat is light - they're just different wavelengths of EM radiation. Does that mean by your theory, you can cancel out darkness with heat? I know "balance" is a common theme in movies, and characters in almost all stories have foils (their complementary opposites). I'm also aware that we ARE talking about a movie. I just wanted to point out that your sweeping, overconfident generalization on the principles of nature and physics are completely incorrect.

2) What's with your 60 minutes, 24 hours a day = 666 thing? I seriously can't stop laughing. That's the single funniest thing resembling a load of crap I've ever heard. You're basically stating that there is a divine conspiracy in the way we gauge the rotation and revolution of the planet we live on. You're hysterical.

I'm not tearing down your ideas that the Matrix has tight Biblical connections. I agree. Just stop making yourself look like an idiot. Discuss. Don't preach. Especially when you sound like that.

Matty

555 wrote:

there are 60 seconds in a minute. there are 60 minutes in an hour. there are 24 hours in a day. but lets add it up... 60 secs.... 6+0= 6 60 mins.... 6+0= 6 24 hours... 2+4= 6 thats... 6 6 6 the mark of the beast.

Looks like Reaganomic Math to me. For those who is old enough to remember that era
During the Ronald Reagan years, we had junk bonds etc.. We thought US economy was doing well.. But many years later, we found out that the Reagan 's economic advisor was doing the voodoo or funny math to twist the numbers around. So in essence, they made something out of nothing.

Matty wrote:

Dear 555, I have to tell you, you sound like a somewhat intelligent person. The problem is, you're extremely pompous. People come onto these boards to express their opinions and read the viewpoints of others. Your patronizing of anyone on the boards who either doesn't agree with or understand your mysterious "if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you" approach only shows what kind of insecure childish person you are. Now that I've expressed my opinion on you as a person, allow me to make fun of your ideas. 1) Balance in nature? Come on. A positive needs a negative to cancel out? Please. The reason there are "hot and cold" and "light and dark" is not to 'balance each other'. The sole reason is that they are the EXACT same thing, but with different levels of intensity/severity, so we, as people, need a liguistic way to express those two extremes. We might as well call them "full heat" and "no heat". Hell, if you want to get right down to it, heat is light - they're just different wavelengths of EM radiation. Does that mean by your theory, you can cancel out darkness with heat? I know "balance" is a common theme in movies, and characters in almost all stories have foils (their complementary opposites). I'm also aware that we ARE talking about a movie. I just wanted to point out that your sweeping, overconfident generalization on the principles of nature and physics are completely incorrect. 2) What's with your 60 minutes, 24 hours a day = 666 thing? I seriously can't stop laughing. That's the single funniest thing resembling a load of crap I've ever heard. You're basically stating that there is a divine conspiracy in the way we gauge the rotation and revolution of the planet we live on. You're hysterical. I'm not tearing down your ideas that the Matrix has tight Biblical connections. I agree. Just stop making yourself look like an idiot. Discuss. Don't preach. Especially when you sound like that. Matty

thanks for your reply matty. its a change to the usual 'who enjoyed the movie' stuff. im willing to learn from anyone who is both willing to teach and humble in their aproach. it appears like you were making a deliberate attempt to trigger an emotional response from me. why? you probably dont even know. your ego shines through clearly. i assume its your ego that makes you think you know more than you really do and thus make it much more dificult for you to learn but unlike you i am here to discus the topic on a mature a level as i am able. i am not here to disrespect anyone so i will get back to the subject before i run the risk of offending.

now, firstly, there are not actually 24 hours in a day. there are 23 hours, 56 minutes and 46 seconds. i wasnt suggesting there was a devine conspiracy, i was infact suggesting the exact opposite. have you ever managed to shut your ego up long enough to ask the questions 'what is the whole leap year thing about?' or maybe 'whats all this DST about?' God is obviously a perfect genius so why would he have to keep moving the hours backwards and forwards? the world doesnt spin backwards and forwards so someones got some maths a bit wrong somewhere dont you think. keep laughing. maybe im some crazy idiot. maybe you are. who knows... no offence

everything is effectively light. ill be honest and say i dont know enough to go as deep as i would like to but it is to my understanding that heat and cold is a quantum and not a particle. if the quantum 'heat' came in to contact with say... some metal on a highly intense level it could cause it to resonate at such a high frequency (and thus temperature) that it would appear to glow like when you hold a spoon over fire for long enough. so to answer your question, YES, heat can indirectly cancel out darkness. please dont be so arrogant. even when you are sure you are right. its an ugly quality.

everything in nature DOES have an opposite. to my understanding the universe is based on binary (computer programmers will understand to a higher degree where i am coming from). to be honest, i cant be bothered to type to you anymore becoase you dont motivate me to want to learn from you or share what i have learned with you. your arrogance has proved how little you know about the nature of reality. if you realy knew what i knew (or more than i knew) it would immediately humble you. you would see the whole world from a different perspective so i have no interest in chalenging you.

you remind me of an agent. arrogantly fighting to protect that which you only think you know. anyway, thanks for your time and i did appreciate your response but maybe youd like to tone it down a little next time.

ps. can you give me advice on how NOT to look like an idiot? your obviously a shining example of how to deal with people.

m4jor_p41n wrote:

555 wrote: there are 60 seconds in a minute. there are 60 minutes in an hour. there are 24 hours in a day. but lets add it up... 60 secs.... 6+0= 6 60 mins.... 6+0= 6 24 hours... 2+4= 6 thats... 6 6 6 the mark of the beast. Looks like Reaganomic Math to me. For those who is old enough to remember that era During the Ronald Reagan years, we had junk bonds etc.. We thought US economy was doing well.. But many years later, we found out that the Reagan 's economic advisor was doing the voodoo or funny math to twist the numbers around. So in essence, they made something out of nothing.

who cares what it looks like to you? read the post i wrote to matty because it applies to you also. this is all i will say on the matter but dont waist my time with your silly statements that appear to lack any real fact or source of research. in a word.
Shh.

555 wrote:

ps. can you give me advice on how NOT to look like an idiot?

Ok on a serious note, you do sound like you are an intelligent person, but when you give that 24hour, 60minute =666 thingy , your credibility went out the window. Has it ever occur to you that the numbers could just be coincidental ?

Quote:

those who believe they know what im getting at - reply. no smart remarks or sarcasm please

Also, we should take both good or bad criticisms in strides and learn from them. We can never improve ourselves as a person, if we turn a blind eye to the bad ones and only see the good ones.

Peace

[/quote]

m4jor_p41n wrote:

Also, we should take both good or bad criticisms in strides and learn from them. We can never improve ourselves as a person, if we turn a blind eye to the bad ones and only see the good ones. Peace

i totally agree with you but im sure you will agree that there is a difference between sarcasm/smart remarks and constructive criticism so why did you bother to reply? somehow it doesnt seem such a good idea to continue sitting your 'how not to look like an idiot 101s'. that would be like asking Bush how to find friends.

the calendar and clock is deliberately changed from a perfectly funcional 'time system' to the '666' thing where you need leap years and DST to keep it in check and you think the numbers appeared by mere coinsidence? are you being serious? i think you should first think about what you are saying and ask your self wetha ur taking the piss because what i say doesnt make sense or do you poke fun because my words are a shock to your belief system?

"so hopelessly dependent on the system (of thought) that they will fight to protect it"

dont worry, i understand you have to stick to your guns otherwise youll look like an even bigger prick than you actually are. dont tell me... you dont care what anyone thinks. they cant see your face anyway, right?

a word of advice to future piss takers: i dont mind CONSTRUCTIVE CRISICISM but dont waste my time until you have done your home work. to be honest, i originally came to 'Matrix Explained' to learn but spend most of my time fighting off idiots trying to make themselves look smart by trying to contradict cold hard facts. stupid. 1+1=2. i wouldnt be surprised if someone tried to take the piss out of that. well if they cant, im sure they will find some spelling mistake to poke fun at or some other way to set them self up for me to shame.

if you dont understand something i say then ask me to elaborate. dont assume im talking shit and shame yourself trying to battle with me. im trying to stay peaceful but you lot are trying to break me. why?

PEACE:)

555

I think you are over-reacting a bit here!

I have no problem with you believing what you believe. However, keep in mind that when you propose your beliefs you can't expect other people to always agree with you. Some people will have different ways of responding, either constructively, sarcastically or whatever; you can't control how people will react because there is "choice". If you open a pandora's box, you better be prepare for whatever comes out of that. If you are not mature enough to handle people's reaction to your post, then you shouldn't make a post.

Quote:

a word of advice to future piss takers: i dont mind CONSTRUCTIVE CRISICISM but dont waste my time until you have done your home work

Is this an advice or a threat? Anyhow, if you read or respond to those people's posts, then you've chosen to waste your own time, no one is forcing you.

Peace, I have no beef with you.. and I'm not your enemy.

m4jor_p41n wrote:

555 I think you are over-reacting a bit here! I have no problem with you believing what you believe. However, keep in mind that when you propose your beliefs you can't expect other people to always agree with you. Some people will have different ways of responding, either constructively, sarcastically or whatever; you can't control how people will react because there is "choice". If you open a pandora's box, you better be prepare for whatever comes out of that. If you are not mature enough to handle people's reaction to your post, then you shouldn't make a post. Quote: a word of advice to future piss takers: i dont mind CONSTRUCTIVE CRISICISM but dont waste my time until you have done your home work Is this an advice or a threat? Anyhow, if you read or respond to those people's posts, then you've chosen to waste your own time, no one is forcing you. Peace, I have no beef with you.. and I'm not your enemy.

be honest. ask your self. is it that i am too immature to take your rubbish with a pinch of salt or is it that your too immature to discus topics on a sensible level? everyone is entitled to their own opinion and i respect that but wouldnt it be less child like to express your disagreement in an adult fashion? why must you reduce the forum to the lowest form of wit?

i dont think it has slipped anyones attention that you have completely abandoned the previous '666' piss take becuase if you can bring your self to abandon your previous system of thought long enough you will no doubt appreciate the logic in what i say. you never challenged it based on logic in the first place. it is your swolen ego and 'mal informed' belief system that stoped you from accepting my words. its not that what i say doesnt make sense. its just that you fight to protect a system you have grown so used to.

by the way, i actually like reading peoples replies. i cant know whetha there is sense the contents of a post until i am done reading it. when your posts contain no valuable information YOU are waisting MY time. i have the choice wetha to read it or not but i guess im living in hope that you say something of benefit or i manage to pierce your barrier of ignorance.

i have no beef with you but i do have important information to share with those who genuinely want to know. when you take the piss it does more harm than you appreciate. not to me, you just help encorage that psychological virus that is ignorance to continue to reside in the minds of a lot of people. if you ridicule that which i choose to share you (knowingly or unknowingly) protect the culprets behind your condition. if you want to continue taking the piss then you are no longer completely oblivious to my purpose or the fact that you are discrediting my words to the advantage of the very minds that shape international (and national) events. you also act to your own disadvantage as well as the disadvantage of others.

im not trying to make you look like a prick but you seem to be trying it with me. why? ask yourself who your working for.

peace.

ps. you might as well ask them for a pay cheque. grow up mate.

Quote:

I have no beef with you but i do have important information to share with those who genuinely want to know.

Yes, but the problem is you get all pissy when people don't agree with what you have shared. That is a sign of immaturity. Grow up, stop being pissed at the world because they don't see eye to eye with you.

By the way your favorite phrase "so hopelessly dependent on the system (of thought) that they will fight to protect it" applies to the man in mirror also. Do you ever look at yourself in the mirror? Make us all believers and live by it.

yea.. the 666 thing is more likely coincidence than anything else

It's like the movie Pi, in which Max's friend (the old guy who had the stroke) states that you will always find what you're looking for if you look deep enough, but that doesn't make it true.

In an infinite universe (as many believe ours to be), anything is possible... literally anything... therefore an algorithm exists to explain our universe (granted, it probably contains millions of variables, and such a formula will never be found.. and even still, If the universe is infinite, the algorithm would have to apply to everything.. even things that are not yet known)


sorry, I got way off topic there...


anyways, I don't appreciate the holier-than thou attitude which you most excellently display, 555. He who called you pompous was on the right track, though I do not altogether agree with him. You might just be having fun (which, I admit, I enjoy having the philisophical chats, though many may feel more uncomfortable than anything else because conversations of this nature require dedication of thoughts and display one's true wisdom and observational behaviors)

on to the '666 algorithm' now:

"Woe to you, oh Earth and Sea. For the Devil sends The Beast with wrath, because he knows the time is short. Let him that hath understanding reckon the number of the Beast. For it is a human number, and his number is six-hundred and sixty-six"
Revelations Ch. 13. Verses 17-8

The actual words differ from bible to bible, but they all say about the same thing.. I used the version read at the beginning of Iron Maiden's "The Number of the Beast" (which is a great song)

essentially, the Hebrew letters functioned as numbers... So the Beast would have a name, which, when spelled in Hebrew characters, would equal 666 (through addition/multiplication, i know not, though really every basic mathematical function is a form of addition)

So anyways, in regards to your time scale, 555, I do not believe that it will pan out as you suggest... mainly because I do not believe in time (time as in that created by man, but space itself is undeniably true, in my opinion.

And along come the Wachowski's, who repose the metaphysical question:

How do you know that something is real?



[the following paragraph is more of one relating to my personal position amongst my circle of friends, and has little to do with the situation in this thread, so feel free to skip it]

and before I answer that question, I would like to place my thoughts in regards to those who ask the questions (not the Wachowski's, I mean people who ask philosophical questions such as the one posed above). I have friends who act in this manner. They love to question the thoughts of others. I personally find this annoying as hell, being one always seeking to find the truth (though truth is different for everyone, so I guess I am just seeking my own personal truth within the universe). "The prick that asks why" syndromn pisses me off to no end, for it creates an illusion that, for once, he who asks the questions is the smarter, and he who supplies the answers, the lesser. To my own logic, he who creates the answers to the questions deserves more credit. Not just because he wasted his time creating a (hopefully) logical response, but he also proves to the Questioner that indeed his own personal truth holds strong in the face of doubt.

[end personal rant]


What is real? How do you know that something is real?

I can't answer the question directly, but if we are all just brains in a vat, and this world is an illusion, then I applaud the creator... I was fooled for the first 15 years of my life, but things have been different these past couple of years

I think that we must use logic to answer the question at hand. To prove a hypothesis, theory, or law wrong in mathematics and science, I believe (and I may be wrong) that it requires one valid experiment that proves otherwise [Notice that I said "valid". If your lab results prove gravity wrong, but you did your lab wrong, then the law holds true]

Now you (the reader) probably think that I have no clue where I am taking this, and merely rambling (as I am known to do), but I promise that this will be drawn to a conclusion... eventually

I cannot see gravity. I can only see the work of gravity. I can feel the affects of gravity, too. Jump up ... and come back down. There's your gravity lesson. The entire time you are traveling with a uniform acceleration of -9.8 m/s².

If gravity isn't real, how do you return to the Earth? Do you will yourself back to Earth? If so, then try to will yourself away? Why doesn't that work?

Possibly --> Subconsiously, we expect ourselves to return to Earth. If you can "free your mind," maybe you can, in fact, defy gravity. Either way, I am not about to try jumping from building to building... yet.

So I believe gravity to be a real force.

Before me sits an empty cup of orange juice. I cannot see the cup, however. I can only see the light reflecting off of the cup. If I can't see the cup, then how do I know that it's still there? I can touch the cup, and feel it's plastic body in my grasp.

What do I believe to be real in the scenario?

1) The cup is real. It is sitting on my desk
2) The cup that I see, or the image of the cup, is a creation of my mind, and is not real. At first one would dub it "real" because his eyes capture and decode (for lack of a better term) the light reflecting off of the cup


So here I have presented you with two interesting scenarios.

In the first (dealing with gravity), I showed how I believe that something that I cannot see is real

In the second, I showed how I believe that something that I can see is not real. (the image of the cup is not real, the cup I still believe to be real.. to an extent)

So all that I can conclude from my 'scenarios' is that I cannot trust my senses... something that I realized some time ago.


The universal constant, it seems, is light. Nothing known to man can travel faster than the speed of light. We depend on light from the sun to grow crops to feed livestock and ourselves. Ancient tribes worshipped Sun gods, and while we have learned that the sun is just a burning ball of gas, these tribes may not be entirely wrong. American Transcendentalists saw God all around us in Nature. Could it be that God is really omnipresent, and is thus part of the very light which declare's mankind's truths (we draw conclusions from things we see, and we only see things because of the reflection of light, so if God were light, then he keeps us from knowing/seeing the real object)

^ That was a big stretch, and I personally don't believe that, but its possible.

Personally, I believe that Neo see's the life force (or light) in all forms of life, inculding Man's creation (the Machines), who do, in fact, live.

"I think, therefore I am."

The machines are real living beings (or minds, if you prefer), though they are not contained in the same body that man is. They require energy; as does man, and they can reason; as man can.

So yea, Neo may be blind, but he can still "see" the life forms around him. This brings him to the realization that the Machines are not ruthless, as the first films show, but rather, they are living creatures like you or me (this is also displayed in the train station, with Sati and her father)

Now to the Theological aspects, the general interpretation seems to be that the Oracle serves God and the Architect serves Lucifer. To an extent, I agree.

The Oracle relies on being able to see ahead in the pattern (live without time) and then uses the human's faith in her to guide them to the goal that she wants to reach.

The Architect sets up the chess board through creating the Matrix and the rules. He relies on logic and calculations to guide his methods. The system, his system, is nearly flawless. Yes, nearly flawless, but not quite. The Architect, and all of the other machines, are still flawed, for they were created by man, and man, as we know, is flawed (one would have to be ignorant to think otherwise) No matter how hard the machines try, they were still created by an imperfect creature (even though the machines did make better AI, as stated in the Animatrix, but still, how could an imperfect being created by another imperfect being create a perfect being? That seems impossible)

Neo is obviously the martyr who fixes all, so he is no longer important


but Smith, he is the oddball in this group, in my opinion. Smith becomes too human, and becomes filled with a need to cause disorder. The Architect doesn't want him ruining the Matrix, but he can't really do anything about it all. The only solution is to turn to Neo for help. The Machines needed Neo to solve their problem, just as he needed them to take care of his own problem. The symbiotic relationship presented by the head of the council in Reloaded rears its ugly head again, and the viewer realizes that mankind doesn't get to kick the machines' asses like we all hoped for, but it makes one hell of a trilogy, nonetheless.


So... I'm sorry that I made you all suffer through my first post.

There may be loopholes abound, as is subject to happen when I do not spend enough time on one thought.

and I notice that I probably pose questions too often and then I don't give answers often enough, partially because I didn't have the time to talk about it or just forgot about it.

finally, I admit that I need to see Revolutions again, for I have only seen it once, and I need to see it at least once more, this time to focus on the smaller details

@555: I came off kinda hard on you at first, please realize that since then my own perceptions have changed. Rock on, dude.

Wow, people continue to astound me on this board. Both ways.

Err: Your post (I think right above this) is one of the most open-minded posts I've read before. VERY interesting - especially the hypothetical glass situation. Have you ever looked into quantum physics? If not, check it out - I think you'd find it interesting, namely all the uncertainty stuff. Basically, your glass might only be there because you looked to see if it was there at all...

Major Pain ( I can't remember how you spell it..): I agree with your 555 assessment totally. I think this board is for discussion of views, not to push opinions on other people and get mad when they don't agree.

555: I don't disagree with everything you say. You just assume that everyone is below you, so it comes out childish and derogatory. A couple of points about your last post:

1) I DO understand DST and that there are not exactly 24 hours in a day, which is why I said 'a divine conspiracy in the way we GAUGE time'. I didn't say 'the way it is'. Your claim implies that whoever, way back in the day, decided to count 24 hours in a day, was under the influence of some higher power (making it a divine event), or intentionally made it so themselves for the purpose of acknowledging or promoting a higher power (still making it a divine event). I don't believe this to be the case. Personally, I think tracking time in a 23-point-something-hour day would just suck... making clocks would be hilarious...


2) You sound so put-off that people are criticising you. You keep claiming that you have something really really important to say, but you never say it. You seem to think that you are the sole keeper of some kind of knowledge that nobody else in the world has, and couldn't understand unless YOU explain it to them. Whatever. It sounds like a first-class paranoid delusion. I'm not saying you don't have anything valuable to say or add to these conversations - you probably do. However, you haven't said ANYTHING yet. You just hint at things. If you have something so important to say, just say it.

3) If you DO have some knowledge of something that's so earth-shattering and all-important to share with the world, then what are you doing hanging out on a Matrix chatboard trying to feed your own ego by trying to make people think you're smart?

4) If you just read what I wrote and are all pissed off, can I please remind you that you claimed that the universe is BASED ON BINARY? Are you out of your freaking gourd? Do you have some good facts to back that one up, my friend? Do you think the entire universe is a program? The Matrix was a movie, dude. If you're trying to refer to the state of binary a computer works in, which is affected by the ever-increasing entropy in the universe, then you're on the right track, but the universe is not based on binary! PLEASE don't ever say that out loud. You WILL be laughed at.

Anyway, another topic - personally, I'm here looking for mathematical theories as to how everything in the matrix worked - is the One a product of errors in a process somewhat like numerical approximation? The Oracle gets into quantam realities and probability (especially with Neo breaking the vase in M1). Discussion?

Matty

Quote:

Basically, your glass might only be there because you looked to see if it was there at all...

just because quantum physics says that a wave function is formed only becuase it is observed, doesnt mean that his glass was there only because he looked at it. quantum physics is just a few mathematical models, and it would be quite simplistic to assume that the reality is the same (or has any relation) as the models we create to describe it. but ur smiley tells me u already knew that, right? anyway i've elaborated on it somewhere in this thread :

err. that was the longest post i have ever seen. i was gonna quote you but dont know how much these forums can hold so that might not have been such a good idea.

anyway, the very reason i set up this forum is so people could express their views on a serious and mature level. its a shame you interpret my intention the way you do but i think its only fair to say that you have set an example of the kind of responses i have been hoping for since this forum started.

thank you for your views. i found them most interesting. i am aware that all we really see of an object is the reflection of light at different frequencies but you have helped me see my reality from a slightly different dimension. that was the exact purpose for my setting this forum up. thaks again.

hmm, matty.. i dont force you to agree with what i believe so your getting me wrong. all i ask is that you dont disagree because my words shock you. disagree because you have a detailed alternative. otherwise your just waisting space, your not helping me or anyone else.

you mentioned quantum mechanics as though you know something about it. do you? then share your views from a quantum mechanical perspective instead of firing silly shots at me.

if i am completely honest i dont know how to explain what i am experiencing in one conclusive post or even conversation. i do know that i have seen too many things and heard too many people talk of similar experiences to say its all in my head. im past caring what you think of my sanity. ive questioned it too many times my self to be affected by your ignorant suggestions.

the simplist way to describe it is that i have beome extremely sensitive to my surroundings. sometimes it does actually feel like i am loosing the plot when i literally feel peoples moods, clock on to their thought patterns and sometimes even sense things in their.. sub consciousness (for want of a better phrase). i have come to learn that there is an extremely thin line between paranoia and extreme sensitivity. i feel like my 6th sense is more aware than the other 5. then again, the 6th sense is the only real sense for it is the sense that brings meaning to the other 5. your main 5 senses merely send electrical signals from the world around you like the sensors on a mic or camera, they are nothing more than signals until your 6th sense tells you otherwise.

i dont expect you to take me seriously or even care if you do or not but take up meditation or something. do what ever it takes to become as sensitive as you can be and then see how long it takes for you to question your sanity too.

in short, its not that i mindlessly ramble without a real point. its that i cant explain what my senses are telling me. the barrier that is language heavily restricts me from communicating my experience to you. my intuition has a much wider vocabulary than language can comprehend. this doesnt make me 'holier than thou'. it merely means that if you are not 'spiritualy aware' of what i am spiritualy aware of then i simply see something you do not. it doesnt make me more important. it just depends on whetha u can humble yourself enough to appreciate that there are things going on in this planet that you are not aware of. the majority of human beings are at the bottom of a pyramid of realities. some you can see and come the eye can not see. that is all i will say. take it or leave it.

please say something informative and interesting. i know you have it in you.

555 wrote:

if i am completely honest i dont know how to explain what i am experiencing in one conclusive post or even conversation. i do know that i have seen too many things and heard too many people talk of similar experiences to say its all in my head. im past caring what you think of my sanity. ive questioned it too many times my self to be affected by your ignorant suggestions. the simplist way to describe it is that i have beome extremely sensitive to my surroundings. sometimes it does actually feel like i am loosing the plot when i literally feel peoples moods, clock on to their thought patterns and sometimes even sense things in their.. sub consciousness (for want of a better phrase). i have come to learn that there is an extremely thin line between paranoia and extreme sensitivity. i feel like my 6th sense is more aware than the other 5. then again, the 6th sense is the only real sense for it is the sense that brings meaning to the other 5. your main 5 senses merely send electrical signals from the world around you like the sensors on a mic or camera, they are nothing more than signals until your 6th sense tells you otherwise. i dont expect you to take me seriously or even care if you do or not but take up meditation or something. do what ever it takes to become as sensitive as you can be and then see how long it takes for you to question your sanity too. in short, its not that i mindlessly ramble without a real point. its that i cant explain what my senses are telling me. the barrier that is language heavily restricts me from communicating my experience to you. my intuition has a much wider vocabulary than language can comprehend. this doesnt make me 'holier than thou'. it merely means that if you are not 'spiritualy aware' of what i am spiritualy aware of then i simply see something you do not. it doesnt make me more important. it just depends on whetha u can humble yourself enough to appreciate that there are things going on in this planet that you are not aware of. the majority of human beings are at the bottom of a pyramid of realities. some you can see and come the eye can not see. that is all i will say. take it or leave it. please say something informative and interesting. i know you have it in you.

I cannot say that I have experienced the exact same feelings and situations as you, but many times I have experienced a moment where I was truly at a loss for words... language really does restrict us too much... which is why I hate the universe and its three dimensions... personally I believe that if we were freed from the limitations of our bodies (possibly through death, though I am not about to test that) then we could truly love life.

so yea, I have experienced similar occurences as you, 555 (though probably not as frequent; once I stood looking at a mirror for nearly 20 seconds before I came back to my body... though I still never figured out as to what happened during what I will henceforth call "the lapse")

and while it is physically impossible to take back my comment about your behavior; do know that I apologize and I will try not to make such quick judgements in the future


Mathematically, I believe that Neo is, essentially, the number Pi


Yea, it sounds lame, but you can see Pi spraypainted on the wall (as I am sure you guys have noticed; we are all 'geeks' here, am I not correct?) when Neo chats with the Oracle (M2) , as well as outside her apartment in M1 [at least i thought it was there].

so that's not much evidence, but think back to the Architect:

the purpose of the One is to insert his code to the Source and then the Matrix reloads (im writing this quickly, so things i skip in the plot please mention to me) itself... what if this code that Neo carries is Pi? That sounds plausible enough... It is a number that we have found to never have a repeating pattern, nor do we believe it ever will.

(notice I say "we" because I think of the advancements made by mathematicians and scientists as advancements made by the human race in general; We are all one race trying to find the meaning of life)

so.. that's my post

Err,

Interesting post. I don't recall seeing the the pi (symbol) associated with Neo, however if you are correct that it was in the movie, then the Wac Bros certainly made the appropriate symbol for "the one". We all know that pi is an a unique number that is irrational. Neo is also unique being the one and irrational. The patern to the right of the decimal of pi : 3.14.... does not repeat itself, infinitely. I have yet to see any super computer calculate pi and pinpoint a pattern to it. Since human is also unpredictable due to the choices we make, I guess that is why the Architect has not been able to figure out Neo's choice and humans behavior.

I think as logical, rational and mathematical as the Architect tries to be, when designing the Matrix, it will never be perfect, as there is no such things as a perfect world (utopia). Could this be implying that the Architect trying to study human's history and choices , in order to build a perfect world will be fruitless? Due to the fact that one's person's choice can have an affect on another's person choice and ultimitely alter the outcome of an event. The problem is choice. Choice will introduce too many variables, thus creating many possibilities and infinite outcomes.

Let's say we have 100 people, and 1 person's choice can affect the the outcome of the other 99 people's choices. The choice one make will affect one or several other people's choices and so on...and ... so on.. .. which if we try to calculate, would end up in infinite posibilities just like pi.

This does not answer what the meaning of life is, which we could search forever and not find. However it does make life interesting, because one can make a difference positively or negatively in the world by the choice(s) they make. Just a thought --

this post isnt to anyone in particular yet it is for everyone that enters this room. i named it 'Rabbit Hole' because i am aware that there is much more to reality than those at the controls would want you to know about. i am to some degree aware of the frighteningly accurate metaphors and symbolic references encrypted within the trilogy that is 'The Matrix' and was wondering if anyone other than my self could tie the film in to aspects of our reality. i personally meditate which i find makes me extremely sensitive to my enviroment and behavioural patterns in those around me. it makes me more aware of some of the countless patterns in nature, numbers and psychology and i would be interested to know if anyone else has noitced anything in our 'reality' that can be likened to any concept from the movies. it feels like people are waiting to pounce on my every word so i wont waste my time describing what i have experienced until i can relate to or have a question about someone elses findings.

its called 'Rabbit Hole' because i would like to further understand the true depth of this 'reality'. if you can connect it to the film then it will help us to better visualise your description but anything on this subject will do

Ok. Look.

555- I never said you had nothing to say. In fact, I think you do. I'm just saying you haven't said it yet - your last post just proves it. You're basically saying "ahem, ahem, I have something earth-shattering to share", and then you don't say it. If you have seen parallels between themes in the matrix and things happening in the world today (something I think is very likely, and probably intentional), just say what they are - somebody here may have noticed the same thing, but is too shy to say anything. I'm not disagreeing with you, like you keep saying, because there's nothing to disagree with right now!

Whoever I was talking about the quantam physics with - I checked out the links, and I enjoyed! Thanks - it was a good read! My problem is I saw the movies so long ago now, I can't remember which parts I was like "ooh, ooh, nerd stuff!" about. Eh, I'll remember. Check out my comments below, tell me what you think.

Whoever said the pi thing - I'm going to have to disagree with you on the Neo=Pi thing. It doesn't make too much sense. I think it's the right direction, though. From what I understood, Neo was the product of an accumulated remainder or something like that. It sounded a lot like numerical approximation to me - for those who don't know, it's almost like rounding. You approximate a precise number with a simpler one. So instead of pi = 3.1415926.... , we always use 3.14. Say (for the sake of explanation) that a person is faced with a choice, and the Matrix represented that choice with a number. The more ways a person could respond to that choice makes the number more and more complex, as the Matrix would have to prepare for every choice the people made, from "I'm going to walk over there", and accounting for effects on other people, etc., to "I'm going to fly away", and restricting that. At some point, the Matrix just can't handle it (just like any computer), and approximates a solution in each case. Therefore, it would be like cutting pi down to 3.14 - "This person could do a million things, but they're most likely to do this, so I'll account for that." At some point, all those little things the Matrix doesn't account for accumulate, and Neo is somehow able to use that. He's basically able to do things the Matrix isn't 'expecting'.

Anyway, that's a basic theory... PLEASE punch holes in it if you see some targets, because I know it's far from perfect. I think it's on the right track though.

Matty