»No such thing as Matrix within Matrix«

zoey wrote:

Oh yes and for all those who are going to make a flacid attempt to debunk my credentials you best think twice before opening your pie hole as I hold degree(s) from a top ten college in the US. Yes, I said degrees. So don't start espousing crap lest you want it to be kicked back into your face in spaids....

It's all well and good if you want to defend your point of view, but must you do it in such a smug manner? There's really no reason for intellectual chest thumping on a Matrix message board- no matter how many degree(s) you have.

Zion is a "container" matrix for the matrix.
Why?
So that humans have a choice! The previous matrix versions failed, because humans rejected them and the lack of choice.
The architect states that the Oracle found a solution to the problem...she gave them a choice, between in the Matrix and out the Matrix...being Zion!
That is why the Oracle is helping Neo and the other humans that dont want to be in the matrix. She created an answer to their problem. This means that the humans are happy fighting the "machines" outside the matrix, where infact, they are more apart of the matrix than they know. The humans win, the machines win. Thats what the Oracle meant by "everything has a purpose". Her purpose is to provide a back door for humans who dont want to be a part of the matrix, and to keep the overall matrix alive.
More proof:
In reloaded, Neo stops the sentinels outside the matrix, and Agent Smith comes out of the matrix through Baine.
In revolutions, Neo can see without his eyes.

Interesting point on the green hue beeing removed...never noticed that...

But...how can we know, that the green hue has been removed...how do we know, that the filmmakers havent just added a blue and a red hue, so that everything "looks" normal now...and that we as a matter of fact are farther from the truth than before...

And the MwM theory can never be cast aside, since it is so fundamental, that every proof made to counterargue it, will be based on the very thing, that we try to falsify (spelling?)...

I have used this qoute quite a few times in here and now i will use it again:
"There is no such thing as illusions because there is no such thing as reality." (Jean Baudrillard)

Is everything an illusion, or nothing a reality? Reality is defined as the quality or state of being actual or true. Reality regarding of the state of a program is always true. Its container, creator or purpose may be contrived, but its existence not.

Getting back to the point, Zion exists as a "manipulatible" (I think thats worse than your word) reality. Its containment, the real overall Matrix is designed to contrive its purpose, but it is still real and manipulatible. When the humans discover that no amount of fighting, physics and science can destroy the machines, the illusion will be created and seen.

Humans define their reality through their senses...:

"What is real? How do you define real? If you are talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain."

Since humans perception of reality is based on impulses given from to them from this "reality", we will never be able to prove a true reality...

The word "Matrix" is a definition of the the word "SIMULATION". So yes the MwM theroy is right, because you can have a simulation within a simulation within a simulation if you want.

you people can keep thinking it when in fact, its the mahchines that are in a matrix thinking they are controling humans in a matrix when in turn are controling the machines in the matrix!

Agent Zero wrote:

you people can keep thinking it when in fact, its the mahchines that are in a matrix thinking they are controling humans in a matrix when in turn are controling the machines in the matrix!

WTF! can you please explain your post in engish, for those who don't understand what the hell you are going on talking about.

Agent Zero wrote:

you people can keep thinking it when in fact, its the mahchines that are in a matrix thinking they are controling humans in a matrix when in turn are controling the machines in the matrix!

In a matter of speaking. The sentinels are just more programs to keep the humans busy. Humans always seem productive and positive when they are fighting something, even themselves. Another brilliant solution by the Oracle.

Is there any proof that Zion is not a Matrix itself?

In the Animatrix movie Matriculated, we see, that a machine (sentinel of some kind) experiences reality more or less the same way a human experiences it...

So there is no reason, why the machines we see in Zion couldn't just be minds of machines plugged in to an even bigger Matrix...

And so on and so on...

Agent Zero wrote:

you people can keep thinking it when in fact, its the mahchines that are in a matrix thinking they are controling humans in a matrix when in turn are controling the machines in the matrix!

Now that is interesting idea! We come to the "strange loops" like this - Matrix A within a Matrix B within a Matrix A

OR

Matrix A within a Matrix B within a Matrix C within a Matrix A within a Matrix B ... and so forth. Any loops are possible.

The minds of humans in Zion controlling the minds of the Machines in the Matrix which in turn control the minds of humans in Zion.

***

On the original topic of the thread. Green or blueish hue? So what. Matrix can feed you with any hue, be that green or blue or red or any other color. So it does not disprove MWAM theory

The reason for the ongoing debate over "Matrix within the Matrix" is that the scripts to M2 and M3 were really bad. They asked more questions than they answered. At least in M1 it was more or less cut and dried: The Matrix was the virtual reality, Zion (which we do not see, at least not the city) is the reality.

But M2 and M3 open up cans of worms which give rise to suspicions that Zion is another level of VR:

Neo stops the sentinels with a wave of his hand at the end of M2, and then is given some toss-off explanation that he is connected with The Source. Sure...

We're told that Neo and Trinity love each other, but there is not an ounce of passion between them. Just like computer game characters. And NPCs at that!

The rave in M2: I've been to Burning Man, numerous techno-fests and just about every goth/industrial club in LA and none of them were like what passes for a "rave" in Zion!

Despite all the fantastic stuff that happens, the Zionites do not react in any kind of human way. For example, how do they respond to Smith being able to duplicate himself? "Duh, let's have a car chase." And since the Zionites can see within the Matrix, would they not have seen Smith take over Bane's body?

Zion is shown as this great big hi-tech city, yet how could it have been built by 23 survivors of the prior Matrix or their descendants?

Zion has all these hi-tech weapons but the Zionites' clothing is unraveling. Haven't they invented the sewing machine?

The battle for Zion in M3 makes no sense: the sentinels just fly in circles making themselves targets and never use their laser weapons. And the Zionite power suits have no armor for the operators? Huh?

Trinity's death scene: she's got a piece of metal stuck in her the size of the bow of the Titanic and she makes this great big love speech instead of screaming her lungs out? A dead giveaway that this is fake to the core.