»Merovingian is the real creator of the Matrix«

I've had what I would consider a revealation about the movie that I would like you to read and tell me what you think. I've posted it in a forum on the net so ill just copy and paste it from there...Its quite lengthy.

Merovingian is the real creator of the Matrix. I will start at the most obvious clues which is Persephone. Her name comes from the Greek goddess who is the wife of Hades, ruler of the underworld or Hell. If Persephone is the wife of Hades in greek Mythology then in the movie she is the wife of the man we can relate to as Satan. Satan is Jesus' counterpart and thus Merovingian is Neo's in the Matrix. The real battle is between Merovingian and Neo and so Merovingian is the creator of the Matrix. So who then is the architect? Since Merovingian is the creator of the Matrix he simply made the architect in order to tempt Neo just like Satan tempted Jesus to stray from his mission, the architect wanted Neo to choose the door on the right to stop him from fulfilling his mission. If Neo had choosen the other door and reset the Matrix then all would have been lost and Neo would have been tricked into choosing the wrong path. Instead Neo saved Trinity. Another clue is the building wired with explosives. Isn't it coincidence that both the building that Merovingian is in when we first meet him is wired with explosives and the building with the mainframe? Its because it is the same building. The reason they needed to get to it from the backdoors is because the elevator does not go to that floor. We learn from the Oracle that Merovingian only recently acquired the keymaker but when Neo meets Merovingian he says that he has met all the other predecessors. Why would the others be sent to him if he didn't have the keymaker? Because their encounter with him was not to get the key but to destroy the Matrix and where the others failed Neo will succeed. He said that he would survive Neo and runs away so to me thats foreshadowing that he will not. Also, the Oracle is hiding from Merovingian and not the architect which means that the real power to destroy programs and create programs (as we already saw with the cake) lies with Merovingian and not the architect. As well, the architect says that Persephone is the mother of the Matrix so why should the architect be the father when the partner of Persephone is Merovingian? Also, the greatest lie comes from Merovingian which is the whole causal speech. This is the juxtaposition to the belief that Neo has about being in control of his own destiny. Neo being the Christ figure understands the truth and Merovingian is trying to deceive in order to maintain control of the Matrix.

Also, the Oracle states that Merovingian is one of oldest and a very dangerous program. This is because he is the creator. Merovingian wants to delete the Oracle so badly because she is teaching Neo more about choice and leading him to the truth about the Matrix. Her interest in the destruction of the Matrix is that she is an exile program anyways. Like Agent Smith, she lost her purpose when she was supposed to be deleted and made her own purpose which is now to help humanity defeat her enemy as well. She knows the future not because its determined but because she is a program and since they are in the Matrix she understands how it guides them to make certain choices. Like she said, its not important what choice you make but why you made that choice. What is Agent Smith then and why does he want to kill Neo?

Well he explained this already. He lost his purpose just like the Oracle and just like she wants to destroy the Matrix, Agent Smith wants to destroy Neo. He is a tool of Merovingian but he works by infecting other people. Perhaps he is analogous to sin and how sin can consume and take over a person's life. In the case of Bane, it is so consuming that it has pervaded him in the Matrix and in the real world. How was Neo able to disable the Sentinels? Perhaps it is a miracle? Im not sure about that. Maybe if someone has an idea about that based on what I've posted that would be interesting to hear. Considering all this, I think the Matrix in the Matrix idea is false

1) Will Seraph have a major role in Revolutions? (I hope he will because he's a badass mofo)

Please read my postings in 'One more reason' and 'What is the Merovingian's function' if what I'm saying doesn't make sense. I think Seraph is protecting Neo and not the Oracle. He said he protects that which matters most and everybody assumed that meant the Oracle but I mean honestly, how could that not be referring to Neo?

2) After listening to the architect very carefully. Is Persaphone the mother of the Matrix? (The architect says something like the mother of the matrix feeds off of peoples emotions.Exactly what Persaphone does)

Everybody was fooled by the architect. The architect is just a program and not really 'the Architect' and therefore not the father of the Matrix. The real father and mother are....well read my other postings.

3) How the hell is Neo going to free all humanity in 24 hrs before the matrix destroys itself?Plus save Zion in the real world? (Revolutions will certainly have alot of fighting in it.I can't wait)

[SPOILER] Once Neo defeats Merovingian and kills him, everybody will wake up from the Matrix and not die since they wont be dying in the Matrix, the matrix will just simply shut down. The mind only makes real things pertaining to the body in the matrix. Clearly the destruction of the Matrix will not be made real by the mind in the real world and all people will do is wake up. Neo was lied to by the Architect into thinking that there was no hope but really the key is to destroy Merovingian...why? Well that is explained in my other postings as well. So how will the story possibly end in 24 hours? That wont be a problem. [/SPOILER]

4) Is the Oracle friend or Foe?
Oh ye of little faith. Definitely friend. You should even be ashamed for asking that. She is representative of faith since this is a religious story. Neo has to have faith, just like the rest of us that she is good. Here though is my theory on why she is good. She is an exiled program being hunted and if she is found she will be deleted. Since her original purpose was lost (whatever that was, maybe she was supposed to predict human behavior), she has become like agent Smith and made her own purpose (Agent Smith is hell bent on destroying Neo now). She is Merovingian's enemy and as such she wants to destroy him. That is why she is helping Neo and why she is so concerned with the future. It is all about how this is going to end that she worries about.

5) What role will the Merovingian play in Revolutions? (french people are funny)
All I'm going to say here is read my other postings if you want the truth. I'm warning you now though that its a big spoiler and if you want the last movie to be a surprise don't read it.

6) Is Neo a badass or what? Yes he is lol
I don't think I need to answer this. Everybody knows what Neo is by now.

7) Whats with Neo stopping the squids in the real world?Is he becoming a real god? (Huh?)
This is the only question I can't answer and I think that is the way it is supposed to be. I find the Matrix in the Matrix theory to be funny. It works which is why its mislead so many people but its clearly wrong. I'll say this about why its wrong and you can decide if you like the reason or not but its not the only reason just one of many that its not a Matrix in a Matrix. The name Zion refers to a holy city. A city of righteous people and the whole point is that it is not corrupted. If it were a Matrix in a Matrix the city would be incredible corrupt and would not therefore be a 'Zion' since it is a form of control and the design of the enemy.

THe Architect doesn't say Persephone is the mother. He doesn't give a clear answer to who it is, but most of us gather the mother is the oracle. YOUR SHIT HAS BEEN RUINED

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6) Is Neo a badass or what? Yes he is lol I don't think I need to answer this. Everybody knows what Neo is by now.

That was just too funny. How many personalities do you have?

emp wrote:

That was just too funny. How many personalities do you have?

If there is one thing we don't know for sure then it's "Who the heck is Neo" and "What will his actions REALLY cause?". Hell, we don't know even, if he's the One.

Joel Silver once slipped that Kid may be the One.
And by the way, the Oracle is not the Mother.
Please.

Somehow I get the feeling I should get the Animatrix DVD today. I have only seen "The 2nd ren." and "Program".

Are all "episodes" from "The Zion Archive"?

I guess the Zion archives have been created by the first inhabitants of Zion and therefore reflect the matrix as something made by the machines, not a cooperation, and the archive can not be trusted.

emp wrote:

Are all "episodes" from "The Zion Archive"?

No.

emp wrote:

I guess the Zion archives have been created by the first inhabitants of Zion and therefore reflect the matrix as something made by the machines, not a cooperation, and the archive can not be trusted.

It's rather that the Archive cannot be trusted because it is told by the machines: "Humans are so stupid and arrogant", "The machines only wanted to survive, but humans started the war"....

The Zion archives are merely the narrative context for the Second Rennaisance. The other stories are Totally different. The DVD has the feel of the first Heavy Metal movie, in that each story is so different in both direction, story, and animation. Kid has the sight, as the Oracle would call it.

chris_s wrote:

Merovingian is the real creator of the Matrix. I will start at the most obvious clues which is Persephone. Her name comes from the Greek goddess who is the wife of Hades, ruler of the underworld or Hell. If Persephone is the wife of Hades in greek Mythology then in the movie she is the wife of the man we can relate to as Satan. Satan is Jesus' counterpart and thus Merovingian is Neo's in the Matrix. The real battle is between Merovingian and Neo and so Merovingian is the creator of the Matrix.

Certainly the Merovingian is a more engaging character than the Architect, but I find your analogy flawed. Let's consider Persephone. To quote my own website...

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Persephone is the daughter of Demeter and Zeus (who tricked Demeter by taking on the guise of a bull). One day when Persephone was still a maiden, Hades abducted her to the underworld. Demeter, hearing the cries of her daughter, sought but could not find her anywhere. Finally, on the advice of Hecate, she consulted Helios -- a sun god who saw all things. He told her that with Zeus's permission, Hades had taken Persephone in order to make her his wife. Demeter approached Zeus and appealed for Persephone's return, but to no avail. In despair Demeter left Olympus and in the guise of an old woman wandered the earth. Eventually she retired to her temple at Eleusis and prepared to take revenge on the gods and humankind, by preventing any crop to grow for a year. In this way, Zeus had to listen to her demands. He sent Iris and the Moirae to plead with her, but Demeter would not concede. Finally Zeus was forced to gave in, and sent Hermes to the kingdom of Hades where he obtained Hade's promise that Persephone would be returned. This Hades agreed to, but before she left he gave her a pomegranate to eat. This was the symbol of their marriage and it bound her to him. Persephone returned to her mother, who upon discovering that Persephone had eaten in the underworld, knew that she would have to return to Hades. She once again threatened to prevent crops from growing in this were the case. Rhea (Cybele) suggested a compromise -- that Persephone would spend two thirds of the year with her mother, and the remaining portion with her husband in the underworld. This Demeter agreed to and fertility was restored.

Now as such, the classical Persephone is hardly a "mother figure" like her mother, Demeter. Rather, she is a semi-compliant acconplice to Hades, similar to how she appears in the Film in relation to the Merovingian. Don't be fooled by Disney animations, Hades is not the equivalent to the Xian Satan or Devil, though some of his attributes where stolen for later use by them. Rather, he ruled the UNDERWORLD, and what was this like?

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Normally only those who are dead enter the underworld. All the Gods of Olympus (except for Hermes and Iris who acted as messengers) would not do so. Orpheus, Heracles and Aeneas are the only mortals to venture to that realm and return to the land of the living. Hades seldom left his realm, and then used his cap of invisibility to do so unobserved. Hecate also inhabits the underworld, and this was as a reward for her assistance in recovering Persephone. The underworld lies deep beneath the earth. There are few entrances from above, and passage to the underworld is normally one way only. There was an oracle to the dead at Thesproti in Thrace. Odysseus when at the ends of the earth consulted the dead seer Tiresias. But while sometimes the living desire to contact the dead, the dead have no point in contacting the living. Hermes would as psychopomp conduct souls to the underworld, and the Ferryman Charon would also ferry them across Oceanus to the gates of bronze. Once through the gates there was no return to the land of the living. Oceanus is the world sea, and surrounds both the land of the living and the land of the dead. The rivers of Acheron, Cocytus, Phlegethon and Styx all run into Oceanus. The dead appear as mere shadows and if touched appear to be thin air. They only regain the power of thought and recognition after drinking sacrificial blood. Those that died and were unburied had to wait for 100 years near the gates until Charon would pass them any further. There is no pain in the underworld, but neither is there any joy. Silence reins there as the dead only whisper. Hades and Persephone live in a palace, and with them the Erinnyes, Moirae, Thanatos and Hypnos. There also the lands of Tartarus (punishment) and Elysium (rewards) to which the dead may pass. They may also drink of the waters of Lethe which brings forgetfulness. The underworld existed so that the dead would have an afterlife. The quality of this afterlife varied. In general it seemed gloomy and depressing in the main areas, however as there was no joy or pain (both springing from life) the dead didn't seem to mind. Later a set of judges was added, who dispatched the dead to specialised areas (and which heavily influenced Christian conceptions of Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory). If you were good, you went to Elysium, an island in Oceanus and the home of the Blessed (ruled over by Cronus). If you were bad you got sent to Tartarus, a deep cavern in the underworld where the Titans were imprisoned and the wicked sent (Gods who broke their oaths were sent there for nine years) for a time. If you lead an indifferent life you'd hang about in the Asphodel fields (a boring place at best) or in the Palace of Hades (where if in demand you might talk to the living). Eventually after a certain time, regardless of where they ended up, souls would drink from the Lethe, forget their previous existance and reborn to the land of the living. This was a form of reincarnation, with the dead returning to life because death was so boring.

All of which implies to me that the MATRIX (assuming that the "real world" in the film is not acttually part of it as well) is more like the Underworld, in which case the Merovingian is very much like Hades, in that he rules over the "shadows" that exist there.

Hello LauraS

Thank you very much for supplying in-depht background info. But in one point I cannot follow:

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All of which implies to me that the MATRIX (assuming that the "real world" in the film is not acttually part of it as well) is more like the Underworld, in which case the Merovingian is very much like Hades, in that he rules over the "shadows" that exist there.

The Matrix world is definitly colorful and a place of action, very much like our daily experience and not really boring. I suspect that the Wachowskies like to instill false analogies, which have an apperent depth but turn out to be simply effect.

To me Merovingian is like Neo who failed. Taking advantage at least of his power he is living a life of hedonism, bare of moral responsibility. He is desillusioned in a certain sense, without the choice to mature and growth of personal relationship. He is getting lonely in a world of puppets around him. Even the love to Persephone has faded. He seems to be agile, but in fact he is a shodow himself.

Just-a-Program wrote:

To me Merovingian is like Neo who failed.

failed what? do you mean he returned to the source and failed liberating zion and the batteries in the matrix?
Do you mean he is a previous neo? or is he like one? i don't think he could "be" a previous neo. the architect says, "the process has altered your consciousness." not "one of your consiousnesses."

i agree with your description of the way he's living tho.

doesn't he describe himself as a "trafficer of information?" maybe he's just a program that has the ability to see and know all the running programs in the matrix. yeah he can write programs, but that doesn't seem to be a superpower ability.
he's desillusioned because he sees all the elements of contol in the matrix. he doesn't believe in a programs' power of choice. maybe he even understands that neo (the ultimate in a programs ability to choose) is still bound by causality. all of neo's freewill choices are still moving in a prescribed and determined direction controlled by the architect, or somebody in power.

0x587e1a2c wrote:

Just-a-Program wrote: To me Merovingian is like Neo who failed. failed what?

Failing to meet the challenge of life - that is what we all have in common with Neo and the others. In my eyes each of us is facing a challenge, eventually you can boil it down to a choice. But some of the choices has to be repeated, some costs a lot, some takes long time and some may even be corrected. At the end of the day (or life ... and sometimes earlier than that) you may find yourself off road ... and doomed. Or you are and are not aware of it.
Neo can fail, Morpheus can fail and all the other can ... but the game is still running. Merovingian seem to have already closed the book of his failure.

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do you mean he returned to the source and failed liberating zion and the batteries in the matrix?

That may be his mission but I guess there is an even more essential challenge encoded.

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Do you mean he is a previous neo? or is he like one? i don't think he could "be" a previous neo. the architect says, "the process has altered your consciousness." not "one of your consiousnesses."

No, he got a similar mission. I strongly believe in the power of personality. Each one has to become mature and pay devotion freely. To be not a specific individual makes me shudder ... and that is the horror of Smith: To erase personality, the ultimate death.

i agree with your description of the way he's living tho.

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he's desillusioned because he sees all the elements of contol in the matrix. he doesn't believe in a programs' power of choice. maybe he even understands that neo (the ultimate in a programs ability to choose) is still bound by causality. all of neo's freewill choices are still moving in a prescribed and determined direction controlled by the architect, or somebody in power.

That is what he said, even more, he doesn't distinguish between programs and humans. Nobody in the movie does this, it is only a matter for posters. But he is deceviving himself or lying by rejecting the power of choice. Persiphone showed him how pointless this stance is. Only a poor justification for amoral behavior which destroys love and soul and leads to the crucial failure.

You may see the determination vs. free will proplem as recursive shells. As soon as you find a reason to believe in determination, you will also find a new layer of freedom beyond and vice versa.

I am wholeheartedly a proponent of free will and take it as my misson to spread this message to claim: The final shell grants freedom. This is the dignity of sentient beings, regardless if they are natural born humans, AI, aliens or whatsoever.

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do you mean he returned to the source and failed liberating zion and the batteries in the matrix?

1) He was a previous One
2) He got zapped at the end of Matrix 2 by previous Wachowskis
3) He went wireless into the Matrix, as his body was zapped
4) His body died and he stayed in the Matrix

5) at least he was able to hook up with good looking woma...program.

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