»Peace ?«

Hi

I just can't see peace lasting.
Some people think this is the normal rebooting of the Matrix and has happened before.But i disagree because even the Oracle asked"How long will the peace last". So this was a new experience for her too.

Are the machines really going to accept Millions or Billions of their Batteries leaving their Pods?

And why did ther Architech keep his word?
He's done this at least 5 times before and as a machine it would seem logical to do this again.

The machines gain nothing from the peace apart from a loss of Power resources.

One the Smiths were defeated why did'nt he just let the second group of sentinels destroy Zion apart from 23 Individuals for breeding?
In fact they have plenty breeding stock in the pods.

Anyone seen Star Trek Voyager.
The Borg and Voyager made a pact against species 8472.
The Borg have only one purpose in life. Assimilation.
Once the deal was up they went straight back after Voyager with a Vengeance.

And the Machines have 1 purpose.
Killing Free Humans and keeping their power supply going.
As soon as the Smith Virus was removed'it should have been business as usual for the Architech and Machines.

Just my 2 testicles.

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Are the machines really going to accept Millions or Billions of their Batteries leaving their Pods?

Yes, for a while if things are allowed to proceed as before. But more likely millions won't be leaving. As before, only a tiny minority will CHOOSE to save themselves (a la Kid) or be saved.

Also, if millions do wake up suddenly, the eco-system is unlikely to support them. The pod system is probably highly efficient at feeding them, but once on their own and expending much energy walking and breathing, well, we're gonna run out of food.

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The machines gain nothing from the peace apart from a loss of Power resources.

Yeah, this part isn't all that clear to me, either. I need to read the transcript. Smith was somehow threatening to the AIs. Neo helped them to get rid of him/them. The AIs honored the deal.

Whereas Smith was like the Borgs, his radical (mis)behavior is not typical of an AI. The AIs are not united, either. There are competing factions. Some AIs have left the Matrix changed by the experience. So I wouldn't assume the AIs have a singular purpose.

But I agree humans are ultimately in a vulnerable situation. They live on the time Neo has bought.

Why does zion exist? they destroyed it many times...each time they let "rebels" out to start a new zion...but why? kill the rebels at the beginning no zion...end

is not the ending i hoped for ... to me it just doesn't make sense.

the machines could have made peace after they defeated almost the entire human race (i still don't fully understand how this happened this from watching the rennaissance). would neo/morpheus/... fight against the machines if there was no war? would they want to take on 01? there would still be an anomoly if there was peace but wouldn't the anomaly be neutral with the machines instead of blowning them up by the dozens? if machines were in control just like nearly everyone sees them to be, wouldn't they want to do what's best for them and stop losing sentinels and other machines to humans? why are the machines less logical than they should be?

HERE IS THE MAIN QUESTION I WANT ANSWERED:
who is in control?

If the machines wanted peace, they would've just offered it long ago. The humans, being in the much weaker position, would've accepted.

Most people would still choose to be in the Matrix, at least until the skies were cleared and they could have a decent life, at which point the machines could switch back to solar power, having working with the humans on a solution.

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the machines wanted peace, they would've just offered it long ago. The humans, being in the much weaker position, would've accepted.

hmmm.... why didn't the machines offer peace? you are correct in saying that the humans would have accepted the offer BUT there was no offer, was there? so why the peace now? because neo can blown them all up and perhaps make it so that others can follow in his footsteps. morpheus accepted the peace in the end BECAUSE he wanted the war to be over. if the machines wanted, they could terminate the matrix with all the smiths still in there (there is no smith outside that silly vr program). it just doesn't make sense. [/quote]

I thought the point of "peace" was because humans had proved their worth to the machines, ie, saved their a$$ from a Smith outbreak, and they have started to see the strength in humanity (The Oracle come out on top).

Maybe they are expecting us to find them a new power source?
Or maybe they don't really care about their own survival as much as we think they do?

I didn't think that this was the "normal rebooting process" though. I thought it was the first time it had happened; the first time "the one" choose the hard road as opposed to the easy one (rebooting).

I don't know...its all speculation really...

The Machines have always wanted peace. It was the Humans who denied it to them. The Machines only know that humans are "evil", as they have been abusive to machines since the dawn of time. It all all the Machines know. For Neo to come to them and request peace, it breaks the ice and shows the Machines that maybe the humans have changed. Twelfth was right because by helping the Machines, Neo demonstrated that they truly have changed from the monsters they once were.

I think the series was pretty much resolved. Humans or Machines alone are limited powers. If you only have one, things can never be right. With both of them working together, who knows? Perhaps they could clear the skies and provide energy for the Machines. The Machines would also not need the sentinals and all other military devices, so they wouldnt need as much energy, and could gradually release everyone from the Matrix.

Also, Random_Dude, as you asked earlier

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HERE IS THE MAIN QUESTION I WANT ANSWERED: who is in control?

We understand how irrelevant this question is. Neo's talk with the Chancellor revealed to us that no one is really in "control". Humans need Machines and Machines need Humans. As said before without both, nothing can be right.

Time to stop babbling and go to bed O.o

They (the machines) could all pack their bags and leave Earth. With the technology the machines supposedly developed, they could be light years away from the warmongers you call humans. Why did they not do that?

Or maybe they wanted revenge for creating them.

Any thoughts?

if the machines are not capable of going back on 'their word', how would they be capable of revenge, and why would they want it? just a thought

Still Lost

ZAI wrote:

I think the series was pretty much resolved. Humans or Machines alone are limited powers. If you only have one, things can never be right. With both of them working together, who knows? Perhaps they could clear the skies and provide energy for the Machines. The Machines would also not need the sentinals and all other military devices, so they wouldnt need as much energy, and could gradually release everyone from the Matrix.

This part makes less sense to me. The vast majority of the humans in the Matrix know at best late 20th-century science and technology. Zion is rather more sophisticated. But in either case it's difficult to see how humans can contribute to a technical problem like "clearing the sky" if the AIs fail at it.

The answer probably lies somewhere else. I would guess that

(1) deep inside the Source there is some unacknowlecged, residual reverence for humans, who are after all their creators. "And it was good, for a while". Could it still be good? And

(2) Smith and Neo showed that the body is just an interchangeable shell for consciousness. AIs are shown capable of a full range of human quirks and understanding; humans, through Neo, are shown capable of things programs do. Neo showed the AIs that once the shell is disregarded, humans and AIs can be on equal terms. In the end the barrier is broken, and the Man/Machine category is shown to be irrelevant.

That revenge part was sarcasm, not to be taken seriously. However, I believe that the machines did have the ability of space travel and could've left. They would just have found peace somewhere else.




BUT THEY DIDN'T!




I was just replying to the machine-advocate's post.

Not taken seriously, but just think about the "we-need-machines-they-need-us" thing

Still Lost

why would machines need us? if they are as conscious as it is depicted, they and their creators can part. people will use non-conscious machines like a car or a computer until they create a technology similar to the AI but one that doesn't go beserk and kill them (sarcasm).

what is your basis on why the machines need humans? the dialogue between the zion chancellor (the old dude in M2) and neo doesn't go well with what i think is true.

random_dude wrote:

why would machines need us? if they are as conscious as it is depicted, they and their creators can part. people will use non-conscious machines like a car or a computer until they create a technology similar to the AI but one that doesn't go beserk and kill them (sarcasm).

I can tell when someone's being sarcastic, but thanks for pointing it out anyway.

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what is your basis on why the machines need humans? the dialogue between the zion chancellor (the old dude in M2) and neo doesn't go well with what i think is true.

Just remember this is what you think is true.

Still Lost

random_dude wrote:

why would machines need us? if they are as conscious as it is depicted, they and their creators can part.

While the movie is taking place, at that present time the machines had no other power source than humans, therefore needed us.

Still Lost

The whole reason that the machines need Neo is totally contrived, because there's no way Smith can escape from the matrix into the machine city; he wouldn't be able to get through the Mobil Avenue station, which is the only way out for programs. And all the bodies Smith took over are still generating the same amount of power as before, so why should the machines care?

Hello everyone.
It's interesting reading the arguements about why the machines come to a peace and why not enslave humans full stop. My take is this. After watching Renaissance, machines are seen as the outcasts and at every turn they are persecuted. They in turn crush and enslave humanity. At this point Man and machine cannot co-exist as they see each other as evil. To me the films are about evolution of both species, machines have evolved to the point where they 'feel' and through Neo, humans have realised that AI's are not just metal and deserve to exist as much as man. Maybe this explains the 'gold code/flame'. AI is only inteligence, not feeling, but through The One, they have evolved and now have real consciousness and conscience! therefore enslaving humans is wrong but necessary to them. Peace will allow them to find another way to survive in time. Gold code meaning the machines finally evolve an essence/soul?
Apologies if i'm rambling or not making sense.

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[While the movie is taking place, at that present time the machines had no other power source than humans, therefore needed us. ]

1. at the time during the rennaissance, the machines and their city was obviously prospering and selling their products to the humans. after realizing that the humans were getting angry for something or other, machines probably felt the tension from the human world outside their city and while they had sufficient time, they could have left earth and found a more peaceful environment. if the machines were the greatest industrial giant in human history and technology was improving at an amazing rate, then there is no reason why the peaceloving machines wouldn't abandon earth and their creators.

2. i'd think if the machines could be as smart as turning humans into batteries and as dumb for actually employing the idea, why not use other sources of energy like nuclear OR maybe find a totally different source. that part doesn't make sense at all. in the animatrix, a form of fusion was another their energy source...why not make it their only energy source?

there is a very good and well supported theory that states that the machines are not in control but think they are. try reading that and maybe your questions can be answered.[/quote]

Lysander wrote:

there's no way Smith can escape from the matrix into the machine city; he wouldn't be able to get through the Mobil Avenue station, which is the only way out for programs.

So how he infect Bane? Thru the trainstation?

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So how he infect Bane? Thru the trainstation?

simple. he took over bane in M2, got the telephone call, and his mind transferred into bane's body.

this was all shown (i think).

knnknn wrote:

So how he infect Bane? Thru the trainstation?

He uses Bane's body to get to the real world, not the machine city. Bane/Smith is not a threat to the machines any more than any regular person. The only thing Bane/Smith could do is launch a conventional attack on the machines, which would be pointless.

The only way for a program to get out of the matrix and into the machine world while remaining a program (and thus a threat to the machines) is the trainstation.

Taking into account the insight we are given into the machine intelligence in the third film, is it possible that the machines choose to co-exist with humans in the end, as they need to better understand the human ability to justify existence, so they can understand their own? The rogue programs seem intent on experiencing and sampling a whole range of human emotions and experiences, so machines are obviously very fascinated by humans (their creators). In the end, Neo displayed a resilliance and determination which clearly the machines did not posess, in order to destroy Smith. Neo's strength transcended the matrix, and perhaps gave the machines a brief hint at a concept of a universe not so coldly governed by equations and mathematics. Just a thought mind you.

I stopped reading posts at lysander's because no one seems to get it. Smith is taking over the Matrix. He is infecting the Matrix. Now most of you that don't believe Smith can take over the system, remember that he's a virus and he's slowly taking control of the system (changing the city, infecting everyone, etc). As far as we are concerned, from the evidence in the movie, the Matrix needs NEO to survive. Thats it. No, "but why doesn't the architect just format and install XP?" crap. Theres no format, theres no reboot. The movie makes it prefectly clear that the mahcines need neo <----- a human being. Neo has proved he's worth as a human being. The machines see the value in humanity. After all, the matrix has a conciousness so whos to say that it can't understand for the sack of understanding? ie, revolution. The point of the movie....

If you dont believe the Machines need Humans as much as Humans need Machines, you missed the entire point of the movie. The idea of balance being ultimate is not jus about the Oracle and the Architect, or Neo and Smith. It extends to Humans and Machines. Just one or another is unbalanced. The whole third movie tried to tell us this. Look at the Oracles earrings at the end, a symbol of balance.

As to HOW the humans working with machines could clear the skies is left to the imagination. you ask why Machines cant do it themselves? Machines are limited by their logic, as are humans by their emotions. You need balance to acomplish anything.