»Nothing More then a Rip Off«

Well, after reading this site for a few months and being quite intrigued with all the possibilities after Reloaded was released, and now that I have seen Revolutions I have to coincide with the ideas expressed on the main page. I also have a few ideas of my own.

1) First and foremost, my personal explantion for M3 is this and I don't think that anyone has made a reference to this at all. Way back in 1998, an entire year before the release of M1 there was released a movie called Dark City. I highly recommend that anybody who is a fan of the matrix watch this movie and deny the simularities of the two films. I think Dark City's ideas were ravaged and redesigned by the W brothers. Watch it and then get back to me.

So, the time line for the Matrix movies are as follows: M1 rips off dark city = M1 makes a lot of money = 2 more sequels greenlighted = extended story developed = no real ideas

2) The W bros are guilty of irresponsible movie making. I now refuse to believe that they are super smart directors. I mean come on lets look at the facts. 4 years, 150 million bucks, all original cast members signing on witout readin the scripts, 100% backing from the studio. This is what we get. I mean Geoge Lucus screwed up Star Wars 1 2 and 3. But he sure as hell didn't screw up the first trilogy. I'm not some crazy star wars fan either, i just like good movies and I hate it when they're done so poorly. And also, there are two W bros not 1 Lucas. This means that they were agreeing on bad ideas

3) Lets take a look at that script. Terrible. Dialogue: terrible All we need is love right boys, thanks for rippingoff the beatles ad the bodygaurd as well.

4) How about Zion? Honestly, Did anyone even care, we were all wiaitng for smith vs neo 3 right?

5) Enter the Matrix, Animatrix. How about a McMatrix Burger and your complimentry Trinity wetnap. These are movies not a Toys r Us franchise. I mean even when all this stuff came out I still had hope that in fact these movies would still be great, still make me go and see them 3 or 4 times. But "the big bup kiss" to quote the source itself, nothing but a jumbled mess that I've tried to figure out and now I'm baffled beyond beleif. You don't screw this up, you just don't do it.

Here are my ideas for what should have been written/done in the movies themselves as well as the problems that I had (to add some fuel to the fire):

1) How about smith being the original one that has been assimilated into the source each time the matrix has been rebooted? "its happening just like before" starts to make a little more sence.

2) How about having the super brawl at the end of M3 take place on 2 levels. Bain vs Neo and Smith vs Anderson taking place at the same time. Neo can jack in to the matrix without being jacked in. If both are a side of the equation then Bain is stronger then neo in zion and neo is stronger then smith in thematrix. A crazy battle back and forth with the movie culminating with Bain killing neo in zion which would give neo super super powers and now he exists solely in the matrix with anderson defeating smith. Cut this film with the Zion battle = endless possibilities = a battle to end all battles and a crazy movie.

3) Lets talk about philosphical message here. What are you talking about. Merovingians, phosperones, ones, nothing answered which makes nothing questiond relavent. Biblical allusions done to death. Surprise the W's are sophmore filmakers and they gave us what sophmore directors can give. Bound was a good little movie, good, not great.

4) Um...what happend to the twins, i didn't think that they could die when they changed into ghosts, i also thought that they were able to repair themselves if they were damaged. Not even a cameo in M3.

5) Uh...If Rama sold the oracles shell codes to the Merovingian to smuggle his daughter into the matrix then why was the oracle protecting her and gives up seraph to do so.

6) How about having Neo take this long drive into the smith city in order to go and meet him, to see the devastation that he has done to the city. Way more exciting.

7) So many secondary characters that had no point, The councillors why do they all belive in the one? Cause they're so old, too old.

Link, Lock, all the programs, trainman, merovingian, architect - ironic that in a movie about purpose none of these characters seem to have any.

9) No agents? None, not even a cameo.

Anyway, I'm done, but I have to get this off my chest since I'm frakin angry that the W bros basically screwed up what was to be as simple as a cup of coffee.

For the record, I would go and see a matrix prequel regarding Morpheus's past - that could tie up some loose ends. Let me know what you think.

And that is not the half of it! I suppose you do have and i have A LOT more objections to this third film. I have to say that i had seen dark city and the 13th floor before M1 and still M1 came as a shock to me!After M1 i had little questions, the story was suprising but there were not so many twists, not any different opossite conclusions to draw. I think W's saw the big hit in M1, thought that mind wrapping the audience was they way to go (the technical part was fine by me, special effects, soundtrack, directing, etc.) and they pushed the story as far as possible in 2 hours in M2. What a rigorous abstract representation of our world, religions, social system we did saw in M1 AND M2 just to conclude with a big bang of special effects in M3!

1. I WATCHED DARK CITY AND IT KICKED ASS...

I definitely thought the story was better than Enter the Matrix.

But to think the Warchowskis simply ripped it off is reading a little too much into it... Movies as big as the Matrix have a lead time of a little over a year from conception to production...

The Matrix was "hacked" from a zillion different sources... in fact, with the awesome amount of themes, stories and ideas it 'steals' from... it's amazing the W's got it to make any sense at all.

2. LOL. No comment.

3. LOL! Still no comment. (BTW... why are you on a Matrix site if you hate it so much? )

4. Right. Actually, I was waiting for more boobie. I think, though... that the 3rd movie made Zion more interesting and sympathetic than the second one... too bad the story of Zion gets shoved WAY back at the end of the movie.

5. I'd like a McMatrix with cheese and a Side order of Smiths, please.






As for your suggestions:

1. Been talked about... would never work... besides... Smith was probably Neo's nemesis in all the Matrices... which would piss anyone off... getting beaten again, and again, and again...

2. That would be COOL.

3. Not just biblical... hindu... buddhist... zen... etc.etc.etc...ad infinitum... whatever.

4. I'm sure all of us have the SAME FUCKING QUESTION... What is up with that? THEY'RE GHOSTS AND DEAD? WTF?

5. No indication that he did... He possibly went to the Oracle for help, and his boss found out about it and killed her... happy to have gotten a chance to off the old dame, he does the favor for the waiter anyway.

6. True.

7. True, too.

8. They do have a purpose... many of the characters further the story... problem is... many do not.

9. AHA. But still... Smith killed one in ReLoaded... maybe he got the others, too?

Coffee isn't that simple... first you have to pick the beans... then you sort the best ones out to become 'first-ground' or 'premium grade'... and then...

Yes, a pre-quel would be nice... like... the Phantom Menace? If you were already disillusioned by Matrix 2, while you still liked "The Empire Strikes Back"... how do you think you'll react to Pre-Matrix 1?

If you think the third Matrix was just special effects... you missed the huge plot twist...

Go to "Why Matrix Answers All Questions" in this forum... you'll be much more pleased with the Movie then...

Without making one connection, it is impossible to have liked the story of the movie.

Thanks

Just to clarify. I did love these movies, I did not hate them. I have actually never been so excited to go and see a sequel in a long time and don't get me wrong I felt like a kid again going to these movies as a lot of other people did. So I don't hate them but having said that I was impressed that regardless if they did rip off previous films, they did it in a way that was stylish and the plot didn't treat you like a child and did its best to stray away from sci-fi cliches. But if, as Joel Silver has put it, the brothers presented this series always as a trilogy then what happened to the story, and what happend to refining the plot over all those years. I want clarification and lets face it, I'm sure that the brothers will make another one, or someone else will, if enough money is flashed in their face. Now, we all remember Jurassic Park 3 but Alien Ressurection wasn't that bad either. The point is: this series neds to go out with a bang, storyline wise, and not the pathetic whimper that it was. So: I woul fully support a reneade version of M2 and M3 put together. Someone please get on that.

Also, if the W brothers are reading this site, lets go boys and get something going, prequel, sequel, second trilogy i don't care, not comics, or video games. Stick to movies, that's what made youguys who you are and there needs to be some sort of faith to that decipline.

Just to clarify. I did love these movies, I did not hate them. I have actually never been so excited to go and see a sequel in a long time and don't get me wrong I felt like a kid again going to these movies as a lot of other people did. So I don't hate them but having said that I was impressed that regardless if they did rip off previous films, they did it in a way that was stylish and the plot didn't treat you like a child and did its best to stray away from sci-fi cliches. But if, as Joel Silver has put it, the brothers presented this series always as a trilogy then what happened to the story, and what happend to refining the plot over all those years. I want clarification and lets face it, I'm sure that the brothers will make another one, or someone else will, if enough money is flashed in their face. Now, we all remember Jurassic Park 3 but Alien Ressurection wasn't that bad either. The point is: this series neds to go out with a bang, storyline wise, and not the pathetic whimper that it was. So: I woul fully support a reneade version of M2 and M3 put together. Someone please get on that.

Also, if the W brothers are reading this site, lets go boys and get something going, prequel, sequel, second trilogy i don't care, not comics, or video games. Stick to movies, that's what made youguys who you are and there needs to be some sort of faith to that decipline.

I agree with your original post. The Matrix is very similar to Dark City & I saw Dark City before the first Matrix hit the theatres.... Dark City portrayed Neo's "The One" abilities better and explained why the hero had the powers. He was a "mutation" due to the constant "re-programming?" with "telepathic?" abilities and he could use the aliens machines etc. The Matrix is a very similar story, but without the reason. Maybe the W. Brothers didn't really explain the reason because it would make the movie too similar to Dark City?

Also, the hero in Dark City had the power that Neo should have - he recreated the city/world (teraformed) the way he wanted.

The Matrix 1 was already being shot when Dark City came out.

dont know if anybody saw my previous post elsewhere and a long time ago

but a little trivia for you

part of the dark city set was used in the matrix...the trinity roof chase to be precise

as for 13th floor

i watched it the other night and found some connections to the matrix but not overly many

ghost in the shell...the anime was much more influential on the matrix

as was the book..."the magus"

I remember that post Anomaly!

I recently managed to purchase Dark City on DVD, I've been looking for it for a while... They have it at HMV for £19.99. Just thought I'd let you know in case any of you want to purchase this excellent film!

I'd quickly like to remind everyone bashing The Matrix to be a rip off of another movie, it's not a new thing so quite dwelling on it. I can reference all the way back to a Twilight Zone episode that the Matrix and the Dark City could have supposedly been ripped off from.

More or less, there are very few new ideas out there lately for any new movies.

Another reason for this is because new ideas are a lot harder to sell. Wouldn't you agree?

I for one, I'm not bashing the Matrix - The Matrix Trilogy happens to be my favourite films of all time. I have NEVER been a Matrix basher!

I love the alternate reality movies, that 'not everything is as it seems' scenario. Matrix is probably the best example of this genre, with Dark City being another favourite.
Long may the Matrix capture our imaginations...

Right On!


Yeah, I just want to make sure that it's not taken the wrong way, the Trilogy meaning. Others might call it a rip off, but philosophically, there are no new truely new thoughts in this world, mainly cause once they have been conceived in our minds . . . sorry, I'm starting to ramble about philosophy that really doesn't apply.

But yeah . . .

~its about 3 in the morning here and I'm still at work so I'm a little out of it~

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