»the GOLDEN glow«

ok, heres a thought -

first time poster, long time reader. big fan of the matrix.

i apologize in advance for my posting if it has already been posted somewhere in here previously. and if so, id like to see it.

everything i have found and read on this site from the 'architect' of matrix-explained.com i have enjoyed thoroughly.


onto the topic.

well has anyone else noticed the specific times that we as viewers have seen the "golden glow?" it has been seen with:

1 seraph as protecting the oracle - matrix 2
2 the merovingians' restaurant scene - matrix 2
3 the blind neo smith/bane fight on the ship - matrix 3
4 machine city - matrix 3
5 the oracle getting "virused" or cloned by smith - matrix 3

(i would like some help remembering all of the others that i may have missed and posting them here for sake of accuracy)

my point here is that we all know that programs glow, and neo can obviously read the programs as he is a hacker by trade and his powers "extend beyond and all the way to the source yada yada."

so did anyone notice at the end when he is walking the plank to talk with the duex machina that he is black and everything around him is glowing. when he dies though, HE becomes the glow.

as if to say either -
1 he has been hacked by smith and thus a program.
2 or he was a program to begin with
3 or he has assimilated into the program/machine world

im curious to see some viewpoints on this as i havent found any thoughts on it as of yet. but he definately started to glow at the end of it all.

thanks

Quote:

as if to say either - 1 he has been hacked by smith and thus a program. 2 or he was a program to begin with 3 or he has assimilated into the program/machine world

I think it's more a way of showing power (or the use of power) than anything else. As per examples:

1 seraph as protecting the oracle - matrix 2
Seraph is powerful, or potentially so (though we really didn't see this in #3, he just appears to be a good fighter) .

2 the merovingians' restaurant scene - matrix 2
That was when he altered the cake, right? So it was Mero using his power.

3 the blind neo smith/bane fight on the ship - matrix 3
I think this was really used for viewers who might not have "got it" that Bane was really Smith.

4 machine city - matrix 3
The source of the power.

5 the oracle getting "virused" or cloned by smith - matrix 3
Obviously big mojo going on in that scene.

And "Neo as Program" might also be a red-herring as well. It may be that all humans that are hooked up to the matrix have a part of them that can be considered to be the equivalent of a program, hence Bane's and later Neo's assimilation.

actually power is a tough word to use for that. power as in terms of force or power as terms of energy or even electricity?

cause we know when there is signs of power as in force things tend to bulge.

ie neo pre flight jump - neo smith rain fight punches etc

i think its a pretty convincing arguement that he is seeing in code and that programs are golden.

but still the stump is why does he go from black ie normal to gold?

To understand all of this we must start at the top.

Neo was created at the source.
When Neo is created he is a Human but also Machine.
Because part of his mind is coding for the "one" program.
Think of Neo as having an Umbilical chord attached from him, to the Source.
As his powers grow, his connection to the Source grows.
His powers eventually come to be that he can affect how the power from the Matrix to the Machines work.
I.e. He basically sends a signal to the Source to short out 4 Sentinels. (overload, which is what happens in every instance).
So by that reasoning we can see that Neo's is like a conduit, a lightening rod

However, Neo was very weak in dealing with this power, any other version of the "one" program would have died if they had done that (as stated by the Oracle).
But he almost did die, Basically when he shorted out the Sentinels his human body slipped into a Coma, but his connection inside the Matrix was still strong.(Remember the Umbilical chord, now think of it being Severed slightly)
So He ended up in a sort of transport area. (which is where any data goes to and from the Matrix to the Machine world)

Now that we understand that we find out what the glow is.

The Glow around Seraph was to show that he was a program.
Programs are powered by the matrix.
Some more profoundly than others.

in every instance, the Glow is anything powered by the Matrix.
Smith is powered by the Matrix, ergo he glows.
The Machine City is powered by the Matrix, it glows.
Sentinels are Powered by the matrix, they will glow.
the Sentinal Bombs are powered by the matrix, they will glow.

The problem with smith/bane is that he wasn't a "machine" he couldn't exactly command the Matrix to overload something that didnt have circutry.

He could always probably have seen this "glow" but in the real world, he has his own eyes to see every thing, thus it would probably block anything "glowing". Thus, when he's blind, he's able to see the machines better.

finis.

-e-

A few points:

1. There is no gold in the "Smith takes the Oracle" scene; only bright light (which doesn't make sense). Watch the trailer if you don't believe me.

2. Seraph is the only program that is gold. All the agents are green, the Oracle is green, even the Smiths are green. See the trailers, and the end of M1.

3. I don't think the gold is meant to represent the same thing in both Seraph and in Neo's inexplicable new vision.

LauraS wrote:

And "Neo as Program" might also be a red-herring as well. It may be that all humans that are hooked up to the matrix have a part of them that can be considered to be the equivalent of a program, hence Bane's and later Neo's assimilation.

Where did they say Neo was a program?

Smith was able to take over Bane's body because that's what Agents do. They are programs written to run on the human brain. If they had freed one of the coppertops' bodies when he was under control of an agent, the Agent would have control of the body.

wow intersting point manavas, i'll have to think about this one

Could the golden glow, or 'fire-face' of bane not be explained by the comments of Maggie, regarding Bane in a coma:
"But he is showing a lot of unusual neural activity. Some cross-synaptic firing as well as signs of recent trauma, with fresh fibrotic scarring throughout the cortex" ?
Thus meaning that Neo is sensible to lots of neural or electrical activity, and doesn't see Trinity cause she doesn't have that amount of activity.

I'm still wondering if this is the case or the MwM thing.
There are reasons that Zion is real, and also reasons for Zion being MwM.
I would like to accept one of them as 'truth', but still don't know which (what did the brothers had in mind, or did they leave it intentially open?)

I still recall the only one problem I had with the Matrix 1: if you bleed in the matrix, you also bleed in the 'real world'. I mean, I once dreamt somebody stabbed a sword in my stomach. I didn't have hole in me of course because it wasn't real, but I didn't realize that during my dream.
I can imagine the matrix sending pulses through the head-interface causing people to feel pain, or even die because the brain is overloaded, but not bleeding. On the other hand, the laws of nature outside the matrix doesn't have to be exactly the same as inside.
Sigh.... I have to decide what to believe....but I usually have trouble making choices....

crotcheteer,

i like that last point you made. regarding that if you get shot in the matrix, you bleed in the real world, yet you as a human watching this film doesnt get that same responce in your dreams.

well id like to start heading towards the belief that this starts to make both zion/real world/machine world and the matrix world both computer generated worlds. but not yet convinced of that (im still working the theory out in my head)

though what irked me a bit was that neo explodes into tiny bits, hacking as it were all the smiths and taking them all over and exploding them all. fine. but back in the real world where his body was jacked into the machine plugs, his body though we assume dead was still intact. as per matrix 1 his body shouldve exploded - unless as the oracle says in matrix 3 he isnt ready for that either.

there is just so much more material left unanswered that it could stock quite a few more movies. they always said that there would be 3 movies, yet theyve said that 2&3 are 1 movie.

i dunno, i just like the trilogy enough to make something out of it.

it was never intended for neo to be considered a program, or for there to have been a matrix inside a matrix, but larry and i dont think that anyones perspective on the matrix could be preceived as "wrong" but as some have said we did never mention these possibilities within the movie series itself.

Neo isn't a program per se, but he isn't fully human.

Consider that the "one" is a "program" that is placed alongside/inside a human mind.
Neo can't be fully human otherwise he wouldn't have been "created" at the source.

It makes even more sense when you realize that neo is the savior of not only humanity, but of the machines, for someone to symbolize that idea he must be both program and human. intertwined.

-e-

i can see where you get that from, for neo was created by a machine, for machines energy yet he is still human, ironicly he is the savior for both worlds. you make better points then others i have discussed with, i will definatley tell larry about your opinion on the matrix, he loves to hear what people think.

I have to disagree with some things that have been said.

Seraph has gold code because he is an angel, probably from the 1st version of the matrix (the perfect world version, probably heavenly version). All heavenly things usually are usually described with bright lights, etc

The cake code is different because it was written by merovingian, and doesn't "respects" the matrix's rules. (no real cake can give you an orgasm...)

The glow when the oracle is being copied just means that she is very powerfull, she is a very important program and assimilation of that program is not easy, and unleashes a great power (as shown by the mini hurricane inside the kitchen)

comments?

i think the glow is mainly to show that neo is more than human. (i.e. a program imprinted on a human) but i also think he got straight-up assimilated like he was a borg.

Well, I don't agree. I like to think of it like this. Remember from the first Matrix, when Cypher was going to kill Neo by unjacking him? He said something like "If he was really the one, a miracle would have to happen to stop me from killing him". And then Tank shot him with that big, BIG gun.

I think that Neo's purpose was to stop the war, and nothing, and I mean nothing was going to stop him from doing that. Not Smith, not anyone. So, that's why I believe he was able to see the entities' energy or aurora

manavs wrote:

i like that last point you made. regarding that if you get shot in the matrix, you bleed in the real world, yet you as a human watching this film doesnt get that same responce in your dreams.

Humans don't get killed or hurt by their dreams because that would be a huge evolutionary disadvantage. It's similar to why we evolved a memory barrier for dreams; it's hard to remember dreams so we don't confuse them with real life.

Correct me if i'm wrong guys, but when no sees Seraph in M2, isn't he still in matrix code, but just gold, not green?
need a bit of clarification

Still Lost

(this only goes for when neo is INSIDE the matrix)

Maybe things that are gold, are the things inside the matrix that can bend rules? Doesn't explain why Smith is gold, but then again, if Smith had gold "angel light" flowing out of him, it would confuse the crap out of eveyone, because you would be thinking he's an angel.

I dont know. Just a thought....

Quote:

1 seraph as protecting the oracle - matrix 2 2 the merovingians' restaurant scene - matrix 2 3 the blind neo smith/bane fight on the ship - matrix 3 4 machine city - matrix 3 5 the oracle getting "virused" or cloned by smith - matrix 3

So to summarize, there is no golden glow in 2 and 5, and the glow in 1 looks very different from that in 3 and 4, so I don't think they're the same.

I think Seraph is just an "angel" program, like the twins are "ghost" programs (the Oracle mentions ghosts, angels, vampires, werewolves, and aliens as being programs). According to dictionary.com, a "seraph" is "One of an order of celestial beings, each having three pairs of wings. In ecclesiastical art and in poetry, a seraph is represented as one of a class of angels. --Isa. vi. 2." You may be more familiar with the plural "seraphim."

I CAN THINK OF HE FOLLOWING EXPLANATIONS FOR BLEEDING IN THE MATRIX WHICH RESULTS IN BLEEDING IN THE 'REAL WORLD':

(1) The human bodies created by the machines differ on some points with original human bodies in a way that the signals coming from the matrix via the connection in the back of your head can result in causing damage everywhere in your body. This could be a safety mechanism that causes people who know the truth cannot do ANYTHING THEY WANT inside the matrix because they know it's a virtual world.
(though this does not go for Neo, but that's because he's the one)

(2) The laws of nature differ on some points between the world inside and outside the matrix (the reason for this could be that the laws of nature in the real world are too difficult to implement in the matrix code)

(3) The zion-world is part of the matrix (or another matrix)

Anyone other explanations?


AS FOR THE GOLDEN GLOW I CAN THINK OF THE FOLLOWING EXPLANATIONS:

(1) The fact that Neo is the only one able to do almost anything in the matrix (he is an anomaly), means that his brains differ from other people. This can mean that he might be more sensible to electrical or neural activity than other people, and can therefore have a (limited) connection to the matrix without being plugged in. That's also why he 'sees' the golden glow around bane and the city. The reason he can't see Trinity for example might be that she has too little neural activity for him to see (yet).

(2) See (2) above, meaning it can't be explained by our current laws of nature. This is of course not a very satisfying explanation.

(3) See (3) above, meaning that the golden glow is also code. The reason he can't see EVERYTHING in code could be he is STARTING to use this new ability


I'm still puzzled by the sentinel going through Neo. The Matrix within Matrix theory supports this, but I'm still not convinced. Does anyone have a good explanation for this?

my idea was that seraph is not only a regular program to control stuff in the matrix, he can also change it (somebody talked about the power, which I can agree with, because he can write programs -maybe-)

the source was in golden codes because it is the "source"of everything, everything has been created there. neo became golden because at the end, he became a part of the ruler machine


to seraphim: he is the highest angel, most important figur after the god. ıf you also remember, when morpheus,trin and seraph went to the merov's bar, the bodyguards at the entrance said stg like 'but he doesnt have wings)

his relation to mero could be that he was a 'hig' program to be deleted, but he went to mero to stop being deleted. to let mero do that, he worked for a while for him but then the oracle has saved him.
if you also remember, as they arrived to the club, mero called Seraph 'judas'. guess who is judas ? judas was the guy who told others where jesus was for couple of silvers. so he meant him to be a betrayer.


PS: i may be wrong with everything, but isn't it wonderful how many messages and secrets the movies have?

TheRain

Then I fall back upon my original thoughts.

Seraph Is Goldcode because he's special.
He's different.
The Goldcode was a visual cue for everyone to go "oh! this guy is not just some regular joe sippin stuff"
The Merv cake scene has nothing to do with anything, except that it was to show the Cake had something inside it that the Merv programmed.

That leaves us with all the Gold Glow from outside the matrix. which are all things powered by the matrix.
It is then really simple to understand Neo = Power outlet controller= when, outside the matrix.

Interestingly enough it leads me to an answer as to why Neo glows gold at the end after his death.
-----------------------------------------------------------:::
Consider this:
If, Neo=Man+Program.
Then when the man dies, all that is left is the program.
Illustration:
at the beggining of the movie when Neo use's his power to stop the Sentinels, by any account he should have died.
What was left, the Program part of him, stayed inside the matrix.
It was not ready to die.

Conclusion:
When Neo the Man, dies. All that is left is the machine born part, that will be assimiliated back into the matrix, to yet be born again.
We know this for a fact because of the Oracle "yes, we'll see him again"
Going on the previous thought that, anything matrix powered glows gold.
Neo being the outlet for the matrix will now just radiate until reassimilated.

that's a great point.

Merovingian: [to Seraph] The prodigal child returns. L'ange sans ailes (Trans: The angel without wings).

[Kind of disappointing to see the Brothers use "prodigal" incorrectly, like 99% of people do.]

Someone has posted that Neo destroyed every Smith in town.
THAT NEVER HAPPENED
They both... how to say it... cancelled out.
As far as the gold glow, i do not think that points power, rather "Matrix powered programs"... that does make sense.

[quote="Crotcheteer"]I CAN THINK OF HE FOLLOWING EXPLANATIONS FOR BLEEDING IN THE MATRIX WHICH RESULTS IN BLEEDING IN THE 'REAL WORLD':

(1) The human bodies created by the machines differ on some points with original human bodies in a way that the signals coming from the matrix via the connection in the back of your head can result in causing damage everywhere in your body. This could be a safety mechanism that causes people who know the truth cannot do ANYTHING THEY WANT inside the matrix because they know it's a virtual world.
(though this does not go for Neo, but that's because he's the one)

(2) The laws of nature differ on some points between the world inside and outside the matrix (the reason for this could be that the laws of nature in the real world are too difficult to implement in the matrix code)

(3) The zion-world is part of the matrix (or another matrix)

Anyone other explanations?


AS FOR THE GOLDEN GLOW I CAN THINK OF THE FOLLOWING EXPLANATIONS:

(1) The fact that Neo is the only one able to do almost anything in the matrix (he is an anomaly), means that his brains differ from other people. This can mean that he might be more sensible to electrical or neural activity than other people, and can therefore have a (limited) connection to the matrix without being plugged in. That's also why he 'sees' the golden glow around bane and the city. The reason he can't see Trinity for example might be that she has too little neural activity for him to see (yet).

(2) See (2) above, meaning it can't be explained by our current laws of nature. This is of course not a very satisfying explanation.

(3) See (3) above, meaning that the golden glow is also code. The reason he can't see EVERYTHING in code could be he is STARTING to use this new ability


I'm still puzzled by the sentinel going through Neo. The Matrix within Matrix theory supports this, but I'm still not convinced. Does anyone have a good explanation for this?

Man I believe you have some good stuff going 'round here, but you are missing the point that perhaps Neo is a program itself, not a human with special abilities. As far as for "neural activity" as you all call it, we have no copper wires inside our heads, the word "electricity" is used analogically. Neurons communicate via neurotransmitters, which are biochemical substances synthetized by the neuron itself. So stop that please