»the matrix series was flawless«

name one mistake and ill prove it wrong, and please dont say anything if u havent seen the animatrix the matrix and reloaded and rev, cus then u really have no clue as to wat ur talking about.

I wouldn't say the series is clearly flawed. Just small things that I think are unlikely:

Why do the machines need Humans for power? You don't get something from nothing? To get energy from a Human, energy has to be put back in. Basically Humans are therefore just an intermediate step in the power generation. So why didn't the machines just nuke all of humanity, and get their power direct (From the Sun? Okay maybe the electrical storm & clouds makes it impossible to gather sunlight/launch a rocket into space. How about from the Earth's internal resources like Geothermal, Wind, Wave/Tidal power via the Moon). It's not like the machines need LOADS of power, what defines how much power they need. Why do they need to power a megacity, when they can just have a few machines, using just a little power.
Seems like why would they go thru so much trouble keeping Humans in a virtual world, just so they can have power. So I think morpheous' interpretation that the machines needed Humans, as there was no other electricity power source that could do the job was wrong.

My guess is the REAL reason the machines need Humans, is to study them. The one thing Humans have that machines do not is CHOICE. This is what the architect couldn't understand and replicate, and this is the sole purpose of the Matrix, to run billions of humans through the Matrix system, and figure out why some of the humans didn't accept the program (due to lack of CHOICE). So then the architect can refine the Matrix (next itteration), so that it simulates choice better (but not perfect), so that they (machines) can be more human.

Bold statement White Pawn. I understand your passion.

i believe i know what the wachowskis are trying to say and i respect them 100% for it. they have done a good job @ finding a metaphor for what they really want to say but i must say there is just 1 thing that puzzles me:

i assume that it isnt just one generation of humans encaged in the human farm but considering they are trapped in the vats from birth, how do they reproduce in order to make humans a truley infinate supply of energy?

If you recall Morpheus saying "....where humans are no longer made....they are grown:" in the first movie.
You have to think ahead of the question to understand the answer. This is years into the future,

I felt that the mythology was well developed. There was one thing I didn't like about Revolutions. The ships had machine guns to shoot the squiddies. But in part 1, I recall Trinity indicating that the EMP was their only weapon against them. She must have been talking about the Nebuchadnezzar only?

In M1, Morpheus says "mental projection of your digital self." It should be "digital projection of your mental self."

Lysander wrote:

In M1, Morpheus says "mental projection of your digital self." It should be "digital projection of your mental self."

spot on! thought there was something not quite right with that line. you got it!

Lin_X wrote:

If you recall Morpheus saying "....where humans are no longer made....they are grown:" in the first movie. You have to think ahead of the question to understand the answer. This is years into the future,

i understand where you are comming from but take in to account the amount of drama it takes to get energy from the humans, im not convinced the machines would have the energy to enslave us let alone live off us. make sense?

Energy is all that matters, right? The reason for all this mumbo jumbo...

I have two (supposedly not original) conflicts, which I will render as FLAWs, until hearing a meaningful explanation(s) from White_Pawn:

1) Why can't the Machines clean the sky? The sky which humans, the pathetic creatures with their way off techological sophistication compared to the Machines, has scorched?
Ok, say that man did such a terrible job that they created an irreversible situation with the sky. Then, why don't the machines send battery chargers as satelites above the sky (as close to the sun (or other suns) as necessary) and get all the energy they need?

2) Can it really be the case that the human brain can generate that much power? I mean why not a cow can't? It would be far more easy to create, manipulate and sustain a matrix for 'em.. Endless fields of grass and several trains passing by.. I could program you one if you wish
I also do not see any reasonings why human brain generates power more abundant and everlasting than, say, the nuclear fusion..

I (of course!) agree that Assuming the human brain to be the inevitable energy solution creates breathtaking scenarios, however I still can't help believing that this assumption itself is a flaw with the Trilogy .. [/i]

What was this scene in M1 that Neo gives the guy a disc and goes after the girl who has a white rabbit on her shoulder?

I thought the wachowskis would get to there in the revolutions but they just didn't. because, Neo could just give ANYTHING to the guy if he only needed to see that white rabbit. But instead he gave a disc. Not finished, the disc was labelled as AI and it was stored in a book named something like SIMULATION.

So what was that about?

standalone wrote:

What was this scene in M1 that Neo gives the guy a disc and goes after the girl who has a white rabbit on her shoulder? So what was that about?

When Morpheus 's rebel was trying to recruit and contact Neo (the hacker) , Remember Morpheous mission is to find the "One" and he believes Neo is the "one". The message on Neo's computer was to "follow the white rabbit" "I'll show you how deep the rabbit hole goes" . This is secret talk (hacker talk) as so to not give any clues to the agents what they are up to. Morpheous just wanted to recruit Neo and show/enlighten him the truth about the Matrix world that he lives in.

The girl had had a white rabbit tattoo, so Neo being intrigued, he played along with the game and follow her to the club and met Trinity and eventually Morpheous. Nothing more nothing less.

standalone wrote:

What was this scene in M1 that Neo gives the guy a disc and goes after the girl who has a white rabbit on her shoulder? I thought the wachowskis would get to there in the revolutions but they just didn't. because, Neo could just give ANYTHING to the guy if he only needed to see that white rabbit. But instead he gave a disc. Not finished, the disc was labelled as AI and it was stored in a book named something like SIMULATION. So what was that about?

The book is called "amazon.com...." It's a real book. I have it, but have not read it because it references a bunch of books and movies I haven't read or seen.

I don't think the disk says AI, it seems to say "DISK #XXX" where the X's are undiscernable alpha-numeric characters.

There was speculation after the movie came out that the people that bought the disk were from a different ship, which would've been cool, but was apparently incorrect.

Interesting note: The people's names are Choi and DuJour, which means "choice of the day."

Come on Lysander, answer all the questions people post on this forum... What about all the stuff that was in M2 that they never touched on in M3?
Why could Neo do powers in the RL?
What did the Trainstation have to do with it?
What was the point of the little girl in the train station?
Why was it relevent for trinity to die?
Was Neo 'the one' rr just aanother pawn in the system?
Was the oracle good or bad and what was her mission?
What was the relevence of the '6' (or is it '5'?) other destructions of zion? and what did it mean?
If there were just 5 or 6, why were there like 80 different versions of neo on the screens behind the architect?
If Neo could just bring ppl back to life cause he had these powers in the RL by then, why didnt he bring trinity back when she died the 2nd time?
Why did the guy smith turned into in Zion cut his hand in the shape of the pi symbol? Why was he important?
Why could 'kid' self eject the matrix?
Why when the nebechannezer is landing in zion in m2 and are about to be "welcomed home" they show for a half a second that the landing crew who welcome them are actually 'plugged in' before they show them touching panels to allow the gates to open (Watch closely).
Why does everyone excessively talk in riddles in m2 and m3 without saying anything in particular?
Why couldnt the machines kill Smith if they were able to make all these other amazing programs and things?
What was the importance of kid giving neo a tin foil spoon?
I dont know, why dont you just scroll through the web-site authors analysis and answer for us all the things that have a "?"

Unless... You are just simply going to say 'it is what it is, and its just a movie and thats how it all turned out...' in that case... yeah its flawless. But the reason everyone is bitching and moaning is because m1 REALLY was complete, it had myseries but no cliff hanging unanswered aspects whatsoever... it was absurdly profound and as far as I can tell - no detail left unturned... every SINGLE sentence seemed to have more importance then just 'to move the scene along' like sentences in m2 and m3... This is why we are bitter.

As far as I am concerned, 2 and 3 basically was Keenu running around asking questions and everyone saying something along the lines of:
" I believe , because I protect what is the affect of an important choice to make " ... No matter what he said... that was the response. Wachowski +400 mill, you and I out 17 bucks or so.

Lysander wrote:

standalone wrote: What was this scene in M1 that Neo gives the guy a disc and goes after the girl who has a white rabbit on her shoulder? I thought the wachowskis would get to there in the revolutions but they just didn't. because, Neo could just give ANYTHING to the guy if he only needed to see that white rabbit. But instead he gave a disc. Not finished, the disc was labelled as AI and it was stored in a book named something like SIMULATION. So what was that about? The book is called "amazon.com...." It's a real book. I have it, but have not read it because it references a bunch of books and movies I haven't read or seen. I don't think the disk says AI, it seems to say "DISK #XXX" where the X's are undiscernable alpha-numeric characters. There was speculation after the movie came out that the people that bought the disk were from a different ship, which would've been cool, but was apparently incorrect. Interesting note: The people's names are Choi and DuJour, which means "choice of the day."

Well I have the book and have read it twice during my stay in college. So if you are going to reference a book, which should be left to the discussions of the Ivy League status, at least if you want to have a discussion you can actually understand that is. Anyway basically the world does not exist anymore and the vast majority of the references B. makes are dated to the point where it will not make sense without a proper college education. In any event, the choice of the name is good because the whole movie is based upon the effect of what it means to have a choice. The prevalent thinking on the subject actually reveals that human beings do not have a choice as their neural network (dendrites & axons) fire prior to input which means before you even know you are going to make a choice your neural network has already fire off the billions of connections and voila you have already made your "choice" if you can call it that...

This is also interesting:

It's funny how he hasn't answered a single question .
Why use humans for energy and not cows ? I have already explained this in great length .
We still don't know why the machines use the humans .
Still don't know how Zion got so sofisticated in about 100 years . The only answer is that they did not start from scratch . What happened to all the ruins from the previous Zion ? Didn't the first 25 people ask where all that junk came from .
I have so many other things to talk about , but the list is just too long .

Sorry , I forgot about the biggest flaw . How is Neo able to see , hear , move , talk , feel after waiking up in the real world ? That goes for everyone else who wakes up in the real world after being in the Matrix . I can't wait till he answers this .

drnima wrote:

Sorry, I forgot about the biggest flaw. How is Neo able to see, hear, move, talk, feel after waiking up in the real world? That goes for everyone else who wakes up in the real world after being in the Matrix. I can't wait till he answers this.

Here is my take:

It's kind of like when you wake up in the morning. You're pretty much in a stuper(sp) after having slept for x amount of hours. It takes x amount of time for your body to adjust to the waking state.

Besides, in The Matrix these abilities you mentioned are aparent. Everyone is still doing there thing in The Matrix. So, it's safe to assume that the mind still knows how to do these things. Therefore, when out of The Matrix, the mind will still have this knowledge. It's just that the body will take x amount of time to utilize the knowledge to do these things.


What is the Matrix

Here are what I believe to be answers to some of your questions:

Why could Neo do powers in the RL?
He doesn't. Neo is connected to the machines, i.e. he doesn't have powers in the real world, he can only control the machines.

Was Neo 'the one' or just aanother pawn in the system?
I believe he was the one

Was the oracle good or bad and what was her mission?
She was good in my opinion. She made the choice to help the humans and let Agent Smith copy himself over her so that she could help when the time came at the end.

What was the relevence of the '6' (or is it '5'?) other destructions of zion? and what did it mean?
Not sure there was a relevance in the number itself, rather that there had been previous matrixs.

If there were just 5 or 6, why were there like 80 different versions of neo on the screens behind the architect?
Good question - Could they have been his possible reactions?

If Neo could just bring ppl back to life cause he had these powers in the RL by then, why didnt he bring trinity back when she died the 2nd time?
As I said earlier, Neo has powers over machines not in the Real World (RL). He could bring Trinity back to life the 1st time because she was inside the matrix when she 'died'

Why did the guy smith turned into in Zion cut his hand in the shape of the pi symbol? Why was he important?
I assume you are referring to Bain. I think he was cutting himself to experience pain, as machines cannot experience pain itself. I did not notice any particular pattern to his wounds though so don't know. I think Bain is important to show that Smith can and eventually will escape the Matrix, showing the machines can no longer control him - their reason for agreeing peace with the humans in exchange for Neo defeating Smith.

Why could 'kid' self eject the matrix?
Don't know really - perhaps it was his choice?

Why when the nebechannezer is landing in zion in m2 and are about to be "welcomed home" they show for a half a second that the landing crew who welcome them are actually 'plugged in' before they show them touching panels to allow the gates to open (Watch closely).
I noticed this also, the part where they are inside the white room moving holographic images is waht you are referring to I think. Perhaps this is the best way to control Zion, although I think that this matrix type program has been created by the humans and as such isn't connected to the Matrix itself

Why does everyone excessively talk in riddles in m2 and m3 without saying anything in particular?
Ask Andy and Larry

Why couldnt the machines kill Smith if they were able to make all these other amazing programs and things? It was said that Agent Smith was beyond their control. I think partly because the Matrix is bound by rules such as gravity etc. So how do you stop someone who is unaffected by bullets, and is past anything you can fight i.e. Agents?

What was the importance of kid giving neo a tin foil spoon?
I think this was just a reference to the first film where Neo bent the Spoon inside the Matrix. It was a gift from the bald boy who is obviously now unplugged in the Real World.

Just the answers that anyone with any sense would give and no one else could be arsed to. Brilliant!

Fatpie42 wrote:

Just the answers that anyone with any sense would give and no one else could be arsed to. Brilliant!

If everyone new the answers, why was the question asked in the first place. BTW I applaud your arrogant attitude

Hey!

Mambo that was a compliment! No one else who had enough sense to know the answers could be arsed to spend the time it must have taken you to write them. Especially that clearly! I wasn't being saracastic (or arrogant )

Why are you so upset with me....?

Fatpie42 wrote:

Hey! Mambo that was a compliment! No one else who had enough sense to know the answers could be arsed to spend the time it must have taken you to write them. Especially that clearly! I wasn't being saracastic (or arrogant ) Why are you so upset with me....?

Oh, sorry dude. If you read your post again, it sounds extremely sarcastic. I obviously misinterpreted (oops )

Fatpie42 wrote:

Just the answers that anyone with any sense would give and no one else could be arsed to. Brilliant!

No disrespect Mambo , but he is kinda right . You didnt really answer anything for me . I do appreciate your input .

What is the Matrix wrote:

Here is my take: It's kind of like when you wake up in the morning. You're pretty much in a stuper(sp) after having slept for x amount of hours. It takes x amount of time for your body to adjust to the waking state. Besides, in The Matrix these abilities you mentioned are aparent. Everyone is still doing there thing in The Matrix. So, it's safe to assume that the mind still knows how to do these things. Therefore, when out of The Matrix, the mind will still have this knowledge. It's just that the body will take x amount of time to utilize the knowledge to do these things. What is the Matrix

That is not physically possible due to critical periods .