»The Code...«

At the beginning of all the Matrix Movies we are taken on a journey into the Matrix Code...I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but my friend and I both noticed this at the same time..
The code at the beginning of Revolution concentrated on one letter of the code and in that one letter there was lots of code; code within code. When the camera panned out it gave us the impression that the whole Universe was made up of code which will please all the MwM theorists out there - comon you know who you are...Did anyone else notice this too?

I noticed flying through green code, then flying into 'yellow code' whichs seems to be made up of fractals and spirals, the way we see Neo perceive Real world as "code". Or analog, biological code, we see many plants and living things that follow mathematical equasions, spirals, number patterns. At any rate, the point was to liken or parallel the green matrix code to the golden 'code' that neo perceives.

- Klay

Anyone notice that the golden code Neo percives in the real word looks a whole lot like Seraph's code from reloaded?

Another Smith,

When I first saw that, I didn't feel that the Brothers wanted to give the impression that the whole universe was made up of "code". At least not in the software sense. They wanted to show us something, but I don't think that something was that there is a MwtM.

We all know that the The Matrix is software. Well, that software has to run on something, right? IMHO, what the Brothers were showing us is the machine-"code"/energy of the hardware that runs The Matrix software.


Klaymen,

Yes, Neo perceives the Real World as gold "code"/energy, but NOT the ENTIRE Real World. Going back the the above statement, IMHO, what Neo was seeing is the machine-"code"/energy of the hardware.

From the inside of the hardware it looks like code (what we saw at the very beginning of the movie), but from the outside of the hardware it looks like energy (how Neo perceives the machine world and what comes from it). Remember how Neo described the Machine City to Trinity? He said it looked like as if it was made of light. Light is energy.


Charcoal_Ninja,

The gold "code" did look Seraph's, but I don't think it was exactly the same as what we saw in Revolutions. Maybe this is how Neo perceives special programs.

I just watched a scene in Reloaded. The one where Neo and Co. are going up the elevator to see The Merov. I pulled the following from the transcript pertaining to that scene:

Morpheus: What can you see, Neo?
Neo: It's strange, the code is somehow different.
Morpheus: Encrypted?
Neo: Maybe.
Trinity: Is that good for us or bad for us?
Neo: Well, it looks like every floor is wired with explosives.
Trinity: Bad for us.

I can't say for sure, but maybe what Neo was seeing in Seraph was a type of strong encryption.

What is the Matrix

I agree "What is the Matrix", I understand that he is only able to see machines/energy/things connected to the matrix (possibly). I should have been more clear on what I meant. With regards to Seraph showing up as Gold code, we see code like this when Neo seems to be getting his code disseminated by the Machine god. Now I don't link this to Seraph being a previous one, but I do however think it is significant, maybe only certain advanced individuals have gold code. I can't think of a good reason to be honest, hopefully one of you guys will be able to .

- Klay

Klaymen,

Klaymen wrote:

I agree "What is the Matrix", I understand that he is only able to see machines/energy/things connected to the matrix (possibly).

I wasn't really saying that Neo could see things connected to The Matrix while outside of it. I would think that he can't see inside of the software/The Matrix when he is not in it himself. What I was saying is that when outside of The Matrix, he can see what is attached to the hardware/01. 01 is to OUR computer as The Matrix is to a game or application software we are running on OUR computer. While inside The Matrix, perhaps Neo can see the programs that were once in the Machine World, in a different way.

Read onward for a continuation of this thought.

Klaymen wrote:

I should have been more clear on what I meant. With regards to Seraph showing up as Gold code, we see code like this when Neo seems to be getting his code disseminated by the Machine god. Now I don't link this to Seraph being a previous one, but I do however think it is significant, maybe only certain advanced individuals have gold code. I can't think of a good reason to be honest, hopefully one of you guys will be able to .

Funny that you mention this because after I submitted that last bit about Seraph in my previous message, I got to thinking about what I had just wrote. It didn't seem to make much sense. That thinking continued when I woke up this morning.

Here is what I came up with:

The Oracle, The Architect, Seraph, Merov and his wife (maybe even some others) were most likely were "born" in the Machine World. If that is the case, they would have the same type or similar type of "coding" as the Machine World.

This is possibly why Neo saw Seraph the way he did in Reloaded. He may have been seeing Seraph's residual machine "code".

This can't really be confirmed because in the films because they neglected to show US(the viewing audience) how The Oracle, The Architect, Merov and his wife looked through Neo's eyes.

However, there is that scene in Reloaded when Neo first saw saw Rama. WE weren't shown, but perhaps Neo saw him in a type of residual machine "code" as well. We did find out in Revolutions that Rama is from the Machine World.


What is the Matrix

What is the Matrix wrote:

I wasn't really saying that Neo could see things connected to The Matrix while outside of it. I would think that he can't see inside of the software/The Matrix when he is not in it himself. What I was saying is that when outside of The Matrix, he can see what is attached to the hardware/01. 01 is to OUR computer as The Matrix is to a game or application software we are running on OUR computer. While inside The Matrix, perhaps Neo can see the programs that were once in the Machine World, in a different way.

How can Neo see Smith then? What about the Sentinel passing through Neo? I liked the idea that maybe yellow code represents programs "born" in the machine world that were then put into the matrix. Make sense, and worth a note that we observe Smith and the other agents in normal green code, meaning they are always a part of the system, created/born within the matrix (could support agents as past anti-one [pimp pimp :S]). I really wish we had seen more of the Gold-world Neo percieve, it was soo cool.

- Klaymen

Another Smith wrote:

At the beginning of all the Matrix Movies we are taken on a journey into the Matrix Code...I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but my friend and I both noticed this at the same time.. The code at the beginning of Revolution concentrated on one letter of the code and in that one letter there was lots of code; code within code. When the camera panned out it gave us the impression that the whole Universe was made up of code which will please all the MwM theorists out there - comon you know who you are...Did anyone else notice this too?

I totally agree. It was the machine city in the (fractal looking) code.
The machine world, zion everything is still a Matrix. The audience never ever seen the real world and neither has any of the characters. The machines built the simulation on human needs. Belief, love .. all the non logical things (in Versions 6). The things that the machines could not understand, and still frown uppon. The architect was showing dissaproval when neo chose the left door. But he was not surprized.

Architect - "...not without a measure of control...".
When Neo met the architect the screens in the room displayed lots and lots of differenct reactions that Neo could have. Thus predetermined, pre-calculated responses and thus the system would also have a reaction to the respective responses.

Neo makes the choices. However when the time came to choose between the two doors, all the screens showed the same response. There was no alternative. The architect knew what Neo's choice would be. because he was driven by love, that overrides all logic. (A new feature in the 6th version of the matrix that the intuitive program (co-creator) probably created.

The architect does not like this because he is all about mathematics and balancing equations. He cannot understand it. He prides himself on his precission and mathematical genius. He also said that it required a lesser mind to understand. He is frustrated and belittles the co-creater.

The Oracle.
The oracle understand the humans better. She has the "sight".
Suppernatural but still arguably a human ability. She speaks of hope, trust, belief etc. She knows says that the achitect "knows nothing". (Of human nature I guess).


Remmeber the spoon. There is no spoon. There never was a spoon. But Neo received a spoon that one of the orphans sent. The orphan's message was that Neo would know what it means. It means that they are all screwed.

Neo saw golden code when he met Serif. Serif is different obviously, but still a program. Another version of the matrix maybe. Another system? The code looks a lot like that that Neo saw in "the real world" when he went blind.

On their way to the machine city Neo kicks some machine ass. He takes down most of the mines, and lots of sentinels. One of the sentinels went through Neo AND the ship. If I'm wrong, let me know. But as far I can remmeber the sentinal went throung the ship and through Neo. Almost like the ghost brothers. An ability possible only the Matrix.

Neo must have realised that they are all screwed. They will never get out of the Matrix. No one has ever been out of the Matrix. No one knows this but Neo. I don't know when he realised it but he must have. He was sad about Trinity's death, but not completely broken up. (It seemed that way) He knew that they were all screwed anyway. He also knew that he is going to lose his life now himself. He had to make things better for the humans and did what he had to do. Peace between machine and man. They need each other to survive. Even if humans had to be trapped in the Matrix forever, it is at least better to think that they are free.

Any way, wanted to just say I agree and now I'm going on and on.

Cheers

Klaymen wrote:

What is the Matrix wrote: I wasn't really saying that Neo could see things connected to The Matrix while outside of it. I would think that he can't see inside of the software/The Matrix when he is not in it himself. What I was saying is that when outside of The Matrix, he can see what is attached to the hardware/01. 01 is to OUR computer as The Matrix is to a game or application software we are running on OUR computer. While inside The Matrix, perhaps Neo can see the programs that were once in the Machine World, in a different way. How can Neo see Smith then? What about the Sentinel passing through Neo? I liked the idea that maybe yellow code represents programs "born" in the machine world that were then put into the matrix. Make sense, and worth a note that we observe Smith and the other agents in normal green code, meaning they are always a part of the system, created/born within the matrix (could support agents as past anti-one [pimp pimp :S]). I really wish we had seen more of the Gold-world Neo percieve, it was soo cool. - Klaymen

Not to long ago, I saw a thread which contains one POSSIBLE explaination to Neo's powers that I like. It can be found ->

the agents are represented as green because they are the matrix in a way. 'They are sentient programmes that can move in and out of any software still wired to their system' well thats what morpheus said in the first movie anyway.

if that is true they are directly connected to the matrix so the matrix code flows through them as if they were a wall for example. another point that shows this is that the agent ear pieces seem to tell them things that are going on which lead to the conclusion that the code passes through them and it is translated via the ear piece. [b] [/b]

the_one_will_return wrote:

the agents are represented as green because they are the matrix in a way. 'They are sentient programmes that can move in and out of any software still wired to their system' well thats what morpheus said in the first movie anyway. if that is true they are directly connected to the matrix so the matrix code flows through them as if they were a wall for example. another point that shows this is that the agent ear pieces seem to tell them things that are going on which lead to the conclusion that the code passes through them and it is translated via the ear piece.

I agree with this. Epanding - The earpiece shows that the Agents are connected to the Matrix. In M1 Smith removes his earpiece, meaning he has sortof unplugged himself from this connection. When the other 2 agents return they look very surprised at him and ask "what are you doing" (in the scene where he interogates Morpheus). Perhaps this is a sign of what Agent Smith is capable of, although he is not given any true powers until Neo 'jumps inside' him at the end of M!. Which brings the question: why the hell did Neo do that? He surely didn't know what he was doing as he was only realising his powers and what consequences it would have.

Let me start by saying I completely disagree with the Matrix within Matrix idea, but as I have just joined this forum, I will read more posts before addressing that.

As to Neo's real world abilities, I see it in this way. The human mind has a certain structure and order to it's functioning. The matrix, and it's green code, represent a digital version of the human mind. If there is a direct information exchange between the brain and the matrix, they must be in complimentary code. Otherwise, either the brain would have to adapt to matrix code, or the matrix would have to adapt to "brain code." (I apologize for the term brain code, but I haven't thought of a better description yet.) Now, separate from the matrix entirely we have the artificial intelligences of the machines. I assume they exist as do the disembodied minds of humans, that is to say that they would be of a similar form. They would be software, programs. Their code should be similar, but not identical to that of the matrix. (Perhaps early experiments in Matrix like environments by advanced pre-war humans helped to design the first AI). Regardless, the machine world, the digital universe that exists within the super mainframe that is the computer city is written in this gold code. So, we have three related mediums, human mind, green code and gold code. When Neo sees "beings" in gold code, it is because they are composed of the "pure machine language." I would say that Neo would have seen the Oracle in this way, as well as all the other AI players.

Neo's powers in the Matrix are a result of the fact that he is altered by originial source code from the machine language, altering the language of his mind to match that of the matrix. What he thinks becomes reality. Everybody else is able to exploit that overlap between brain language and matrix code to the extent that the languages are similar, they can bend but not break. Neo can break because he is thinking in Matrix code. This is not a problem if Neo eventually follows the Architect's plan and restarts Zion. But, he doesn't. The evolution of his mind continues, the language of it apporoaching closer and closer to the Machine language. His mind starts to sync up with the machines, hence his growing ability to affect them and to see them. (still trying to figure out the exact physical mechanisms here.) Speaking of Agent Smith, he is the process in reverse: Matrix code modified in such a way that he is able to beam himself into a human mind and function there. It can be assumed that eventually he would be able to bleed into the pure machine world and take over there the same way, hence the danger he poses to the master AI (who I assumed to be the architect, but I may be wrong.)

Sorry for rambling, there is a lot more and I'll post it another time.

thats for that.

and as for all the talk why does neo have his power in the real world.

well the power of the one is within the individual so why should the power be limited to the matrix.

does anyone agree?[b][/b]

Neo's powers come from his ability to recognize he is in a simulation and free his mind of that simulation's rules. We are told this in M1. So if Neo's powers extend beyond the Matrix, the simulation extends beyond the Matrix.

I too noticed that the Machine City is shown in the firecode in the opening sequence. It is the exact same shot that Neo sees as the Logos is crashing. That code then morphs into a regular green Matrix glyph and pans out to a computer monitor. The only thing missing is a sign that says:MWAM.

[quote="cobuss"]

Another Smith wrote:

The Oracle. The oracle understand the humans better. She has the "sight". Suppernatural but still arguably a human ability. She speaks of hope, trust, belief etc. She knows says that the achitect "knows nothing". (Of human nature I guess). Cheers

Knows nothing: (but understands everything)

its a principle of epistemology. the architect does not know anything because he cannot see past his self-prescribed weaknesses


On another note: assuming Zion is another matrix does that make the main councellor a program akin to the Oracle?

it would seem so from Neo and his conversation in reloaded

on another note; it would be rather conveinient for the machines if the "real" was just another program. sure is easy to build giant powerplants if you don't have to worry about materials or pesky laws of physics.

[quote="AnaisKarim"]Neo's powers come from his ability to recognize he is in a simulation and free his mind of that simulation's rules. We are told this in M1. So if Neo's powers extend beyond the Matrix, the simulation extends beyond the Matrix.

I too noticed that the Machine City is shown in the firecode in the opening sequence. It is the exact same shot that Neo sees as the Logos is crashing. That code then morphs into a regular green Matrix glyph and pans out to a computer monitor. The only thing missing is a sign that says:[b]MWAM[/b].[/quote]

well that was not refering to the one that was refering to humans bending the rules of the matrix. why would neo be the one if the power wasnt within him, if his power came from the fact he relises he is a simulation then why does his power exist in the real world where he is not a simulation,

the power is within him.

Watch M1 again. The only thing that is "within" him is a greater ability to disbelieve the simulation. No one disbelieves the simulation more than the One. Morpheus disbelieves it to a lesser degree than Neo but to a greater degree than the other rebels. It's all about freeing your mind.

If these movies have done anything it is expose just how much misunderstanding existed amongst the fans. Each sequel exposed more.

Now the people who are still clinging to the "brilliance" of this trilogy are those who never got any of the fundamentals laid out in the first. The people who understood those fundamentals are outraged by the sloppy execution and seemingly endless plot holes in this last installment especially.

The brothers have succeeded in dumbing this trilogy down considerably and weeding out most of the people who don't just accept an answer because someone says so.

Although i am an anti-Matrix within a Matrix theorist, i saw Revolutions for the third time last night and saw something i've missed up til then, that sort of goes along with the first post in this thread. Lets see if anyone else caught what i caught.

In the very beginning, you get run through the usual green Code, just like the start of every other Matrix movie. Then you get introduced to the Golden Code, but then you get shown the green Code again, this time, as it is about to finish, it focuses in on one symbol it seemed to me. This symbol, if you guys remember the space shooter games from the Atari days, was a little tiny green space ship. As it ends, it transfers you to the Hammer where the crew is at the computers looking into the Matrix television feed. Doing a search of the Matrix.

Now, like i said, i was completely anti- Matrix within a Matrix, but i'm starting to be skeptical. If the green ship that you see in the last bit of Code in the introduction is meant to be the Hammer, then the Hammer is in a second Matrix. I won't go any further than that, because maybe someone else has a different view of the little green "ship-like" symbol in the beginning of Revolutions; just figured i'd mention it.

that bull neo is the one not because he understands stuff because he obviosley doesnt. he always seems confused about everything.
he is the one out side the simulation aswell remember that

Maybe I'm joking and maybe I'm not, but I think the final symbol that we hold on looks like the Cadillac logo. Serious. I was just strolling through the Zion Archives (found at

That symbol could very well be Thor's Hammer which goes along with the idea that it represents the Mjolnir ship - nicknamed The Hammer.

Phoenix wrote:

If the green ship that you see in the last bit of Code in the introduction is meant to be the Hammer, then the Hammer is in a second Matrix.

but (i´m not sure) isn´t it that while you see that ship-symbol the camera zooms out of the computerscreen on the hammer? do they see themselves on the screen without notice? do the machines let them see? it would mean that you could decode the matrix also inside the matrix..
anyway, not sure about that screen thing.

AnaisKarim wrote:

That symbol could very well be Thor's Hammer which goes along with the idea that it represents the Mjolnir ship - nicknamed The Hammer.

so we all agree it has the shape of a hammer..?

There is another post somewhere on this site which explains a link.

The hammer is a symbol/icon of a real world hacking program - can't remember the name of the program - its on this site somewhere.

The yellow code represents the structure of the programming of AI's. Every program is made of other programsn themself made of other simplier programs, etc.

That's how most of neural networks work and the AI's world is definitly a neural network.
FYI, even Smith/Bane is made of the same fractal structure, you see it when Bane is killed, the code of Smith just collapse into his smalles programs till nothing is left.

It does not prove that Zion is not real because in the beginning of revolution, we are directly passing from a green code to the screen of the hammer. If Zion was not real, then the green code would form the glass of the screen and then we would see "real-false" world.

The fact that we pass from the green code to the reality is just a trick from the Brothers to make us doubt again.