»A Challenge«

If I were to ask you if X+3=5 were true what would your response be?
You could say yes, or no, but you would be wrong either way.
The right answer would be that you couldn't tell me. You have no idea what X is so you can't tell me if the statement is true or not. You have an incomplete understanding of the problem and cannot judge it. By saying yes or no, you would make an erroreous judgment because you did not base it on your understanding of the problem.

If I gave you some more information
X>1
X<3
X is an integer

and then asked you if X+3=5 You could respond if you understood the statements given.

The point Im trying to make is, if you didn't like the Matrix its ok, I don't expect everyone to like it. If you didn't like it because it was too hard to understand, thats ok. If you didn't like it because you didn't understand it, still ok. But if you don't like it because "the movie doesn't make any sense" though, thats different. Your final verdict on the movie is irrelevant. Its why you came to the final verdict thats important. Its why people write reviews instead of simply listing the number of stars.

Merovingian: `Why' is the only real social power, without it you are powerless. And this is how you come to me, without `why,' without power.

By simply saying that the Matrix sucked because it didn't make sense you are judging the movie without understanding it. Its like trying to prove the equation right or wrong without understanding the other information. You have no why. The information is there, so you're reasoning of it not making any sense is not very strong.

I am taking into account two things however. I'm, assuming that the Wachowski Bros. goal was not to ruin the series by having it not make any sense, therefore, it must make a sense to a certain degree. They may have made it ambigious at points, an important literary convention writers use, but it should all fit together. I'm also assuming that you are of the intellectual level to understand the matrix movies. Maybe you aren't however. If you gave the second equation to a 2nd grader, no matter how easy it may seem to you, he might not understand it.

I think we can all agree on the first assumption. But the second one is up to you to decide. Did the Matrix outsmart you?

Well, I guess the point I'm driving at is, Don't judge the movie because you don't understand it. You wouldn't judge a math problem you didn't understand. If you were on a jury you wouldn't judge the suspect if you didn't understand anything about the case. You'd have no why to back up your case. If you were eating in a foreign country and you didn't find a particular food appetizing, would you just say its disgusting? You can't make that generalization for everybody. The only thing you can say is that YOU didn't like it. You can not put yourself on a pedastal to place final judgement on the taste of the food.

I can already see the angry comments coming. How do you know the Bros. aren't just crazy so it makes no sense at all? Maybe somebody will point out some flaw in my math equation analogy, or some silly gramatical error I made. My purpose here was not to attack anybody but to really get a point across. The movie made no sense to me the first time I saw it, but I sought to understand it by reading stuff online and seeing it a second time, before I placed my verdict on it, because by then I had a much greater understanding of it.


I challenge you all to not judge the movie on your lack of understanding of it, but to try to understand it all before you judge it, or simply admit that you didn't like it because it didn't make sense to you or was too hard to understand.

There still are things I don't fully have a grasp on, yet, I still throughly enjoyed all three. I must say that I am very glad I don't understand every aspect, or that I didn't spend the last 6 months analyzing every sentance in the first two because if I did, I may have the same sour outlook as many people here have.

You bring up a good point.
The ambiguous nature of the first two films allowed for us to come up with all of these great theories. I think people are dissappointed that the 3rd movie was still ambiguous, and due to their dissappointment fail to see all the movie did answer that the first two set up

What happens because Neo chose the other door.
What happens to Neo.
What happens to Zion.
What happens to Smith and all his clones.
What happens to the machines and the matrix.

These are the most important questions that do get answered. The details may have been fuzzy and up to interpretation. The Ambiguous nature of the film will only allow it to be understood to a point, but I think people are blinding their understanding of the fim by focusing in on these ambiguties and then claiming that nothing made sense.

I think it's a little presumptious of you to say the audience-going public must be "intellectual" enough to understand the Matrix Revolutions. The Matrix isn't Avant Garde, it should and can be judged by the effect it has on you when you come out of the cinema.

Remember the first one? I came out thinking that was damn cool. The second had a similar effect.

Both the first 2 films were full of interesting ideas, the last felt like it fell so very short of the grand ideals it had built up. Intellectual stuff? Well I'm not sure I buy it, making it too ambiguous just ends up destroying pace and interest. And I don't call picking at Greek and Christian myth particulary enthralling without some decent plot and context behind it.

true that... the primary purpose of a movie should be to reach the target audience and impart something... whether it be ideas or emotions.

Personally, my beef with the Matrix is not just the invalidity of some of the ideas and assumptions, but the general tenor of the film-making.

A lot of movies suck.

A whole lot of movies really suck.

But when you have such lofty aims, as set by the first matrix, you really should learn how to play the game.

The Warchowskis forgot their game in ReLoaded... pacing-wise and script-wise, it was a bomb... cinematically... they could have thought it out more thoroughly before injecting it with so much damn hollywood and SFX.

At that point... the knee-jerk entertainment value goes down... most people can't enjoy a good play if it's done well... what more a play done by the most amateurish theater company? That's where it all goes haywire... people won't like the story if it's told the wrong way.

Revolutions may not have pleased everyone, but it satisfied me.

True Believer wrote:

Don't judge the movie because you don't understand it.

Well, I'm the person my friends come to to explain the series, but OK, let's assume the answers are there and I just don't understand it. Please explain:

1.
a) How was Neo able to stop the Sentinels in Reloaded? The Oracle says his power extends beyond the matrix, but that's what happened, not how it happened. We already know that the power of the One extends beyond the matrix.
b)How is Neo able to see certain machines after he's blinded?
c)What happened when a sentinel passed through Neo? How?
d)How can Neo be connected to the trainstation/matrix without being physically jacked in?

2. How did Neo allowing Smith to overwrite him lead to the destruction of all Smiths? One theory is that Deus Ex Machina used the copy of Smith's code that was running on Neo's body to search the matrix and delete all instances. But if that's the case, why couldn't the DEM use any old person? And if everyone in the matrix has been taken over by Smith, why would he need the code at all? Just delete all running code. Or just do a search for code that's running in more than one place and delete all instances. Or if the DEM was willing to kill all humans connected to the matrix anyway, why not just shut it down?


3. How did Smith become so powerful? If taking over the Oracle gave that Smith more power than the other Smiths, then his code would have been different, thus negating the "Search and Destroy" theory for 2. And if taking over the Oracle gave him the extra power, doesn't that mean that the Oracle had those powers as well? If she was more powerful than Neo, why would she need Seraph? Wouldn't the Smith that took over Sati be even more powerful? (see Sati thread). I think it might've been better for Smith to absorb people, to make their code part of his own, rather than overwrite them.


4. Is Neo the One, or not? If the first movie they set the One up as someone who can "remake the matrix as he sees fit," yet we don't see Neo exhibit power on anywhere near this scale in the second 2 movies. Basically he hits people really hard.


5. Where did the light that came out of Neo's body in the real world come from?

I think that's enough for now.

Artistically, the movie falls flat because it advertised itself at the end of Reloaded as TO BE CONCLUDED. There was no conclusion. A conclusion, artistically not philosophically, has to be something the average movie-goer can UNDERSTAND! The brothers piled riddles upon riddles upon enigmas upon mysterious double talk upon snippets of philosophy from all over the world et cetera. Alright, but then it is absolutely necessary to untie the knots, to solve the mysteries. Maybe not every single bit but the main outlines - - we true fans can figure out the rest alone. But THIS movie was simply not fair. We fans were not dealt fair. Artistically spoken. Think of music. If Beethoven's 5th would end after the TatataTA, nobody would be happy. Please forgive me, my English is not good enough for these things, but maybe you get my point anyway.

However... I think the solution is this: EVERYTHING is an illusion!

Remember:

1.) beginning of the movie: golden code explosion, then golden fractals, then a green city , then Matrix green code, then Zion resp. the Hovercraft i.e. the "real world". That could mean: the "real" world is still written in code: the golden code.

2.) Neo's visions of golden code after he's blinded = cut off from sense input from the "real" world and just listening to his intuition.

3.) Smith's resp. Bane's statement "We were here before, it's always the same fight, do you remember, Mister Anderson?" - - Many people believe that he refers to the hallway shootout scene from Matrix 1... I don't! I believe he refers to a former "incarnation", or version of the Matrix. Everything happend just as before (Smith even said this in Reloaded). How could that be possible if Zion resp. the "real" world were NOT a simulation (guided by the oracle as we lerned, controlled by the machines .. . or by another Deus Ex Machina we never saw and MAYBE or should I say most probably even the machines and programmes never learned of ?)

The soundtrack at the end with its Hindu/Buddhist references adds to this speculations. Very interesting! The Wachowsky brothers are still wizards! (Had they put it in a better shape - artistically - I would be much happier, nonetheless)

This in mind, I give the movie a 2 out of 10 regarding fairness against the movie-goers, 7 out of 10 in visual effects (Reloaded was better) and 9 out of 10 philosophically. End result: 5 out of 10, i.e. mediocre.

What a pity. The Wackos are still whiz kids, but they seemingly suffer from the famous Hollywood infection called George Lucasitis. They got too arrogant. Why didn't they hire some fresh talents for the script and directing ? REVOLUTIONS clearly had the potential...but the spoon was only bent half-way.

Kudos anyway...but with a sad sigh, fellows.

Arndt wrote:

Quote:

beginning of the movie: golden code explosion, then golden fractals, then a green city , then Matrix green code, then Zion resp. the Hovercraft i.e. the "real world". That could mean: the "real" world is still written in code: the golden code.

I'm happy that you made this observation about the code my friend and I noticed the code within code, and when the camers panned out it was based on just one letter of the code - meaning that everything is in code...the universe and everything..

I think the golden code is the energy of the source, even the Matrix has a conenction to source, so do machines, all energy and all life came from source. Neo becomes shinier than the machines, he's a vessel carrying the energy of the source, machines and humans do to a lesser amount.


I think everyone who left the movie theater let down has the right to be let down, while I went to see the mythological conclusion of the story, they went to see another plot, and that plot was not fulfilled, even Mr. Fishbourne said the you don't have to understand the movie to like it, but I think people dont just FORGET the relgious/mythical connotation and denonation in the movie, and while they partially understand they leave unsatisfied because they wanted everything to make sense. You shoudn't have to be a philosiphy major to enjoy the movie, and you dont. I love ANIME so watching the Matrix at an anime level I liked it. Watching it as an action movie I think that's how most critics look at it, it was... not fulfilling because we've seen this flicks before as far as action movie, so the movie fails. I think we all need to judge the movie as a COMBINATION of all of these genres and ideas thrown into one even the ones we don't understand, and not judge it because we dont. As a MIX the movie is a success regardless. Now if you don't understand the movie at a particular level ask someone how does, then you'll be satisfied. I think most of the pople in this forum are here because they didn't understand something, but it is the questions that drove us here. There will be people who will explain things and then we too can do the same.

My friend hated anime, not because of it, but because he's met some fanatics who seemed weird to him. One day he was like I've never seen anything like the Matrix (Smith flying fighting with Neo), so I recommended some anime and I think he's hooked now. So let The Matrix open doors to new things for you.

Peace.

Andromeda wrote:

Quote:

So let Matrix open doors to new things for you.

Couldn't have said it better myself..
The Matrix has opened up many doors for many people...Revelations, a different way of thinking about reality.
I've certainly been introduced to new interests and new aspects of belief that I had never looked into or questioned before..And the funny thing is The Matrix also ties in with all my on going explorations into Life, The Universe and Everything else...Thankyou The W. Bros...

Lysander wrote:

True Believer wrote: Don't judge the movie because you don't understand it. Well, I'm the person my friends come to to explain the series, but OK, let's assume the answers are there and I just don't understand it. Please explain: 1. a) How was Neo able to stop the Sentinels in Reloaded? The Oracle says his power extends beyond the matrix, but that's what happened, not how it happened. We already know that the power of the One extends beyond the matrix.

Let's try this. 'The One' is a program, just like Agent Smith, The Architect and The Oracle. Neo is the human host for The One; just witness how Agent Smith downloaded himself into Bane's mind. Both 'The One' and 'Agent Smith' exists inside and outside the Matrix world. So Neo can do his things to the machines even when he's not jacked in.

Lysander wrote:

b)How is Neo able to see certain machines after he's blinded?

See above. The One program constructed the images.

Lysander wrote:

c)What happened when a sentinel passed through Neo? How?

Yes, I saw that... but the sentinel has to pass through the ship's hull first. So I take it that it's a metaphorical/virtual thing. Remember, Neo is blind. He may feel that a sentinel has passed through him when in fact, it's only a signal that 'zapped' him. It may be a sign of him feeling connected to the machine world.

Lysander wrote:

d)How can Neo be connected to the trainstation/matrix without being physically jacked in?

See above. He touched a sentinel and got uploaded to the Matrix. Some guy at Beer College has a theory on this... Neo's mind is perpectually jacked into the Matrix.

Lysander wrote:

2. How did Neo allowing Smith to overwrite him lead to the destruction of all Smiths? One theory is that Deus Ex Machina used the copy of Smith's code that was running on Neo's body to search the matrix and delete all instances. But if that's the case, why couldn't the DEM use any old person? And if everyone in the matrix has been taken over by Smith, why would he need the code at all? Just delete all running code. Or just do a search for code that's running in more than one place and delete all instances. Or if the DEM was willing to kill all humans connected to the matrix anyway, why not just shut it down?

Agent Smith was created to balance Neo's existence. Once Neo's taken over by Smith, the latter loses his reason to exst. Hence, the mass deletion. Note that Smith and Neo does not necessary mean '-1' and '1' mathematically (Those are just simple algebra). In the traditional Yin/Yang metaphor... women=yin and men=yang; moon=yin and sun=yang. More complex math may be in order to ensure the equilibrium.

Lysander wrote:

3. How did Smith become so powerful? If taking over the Oracle gave that Smith more power than the other Smiths, then his code would have been different, thus negating the "Search and Destroy" theory for 2. And if taking over the Oracle gave him the extra power, doesn't that mean that the Oracle had those powers as well? If she was more powerful than Neo, why would she need Seraph? Wouldn't the Smith that took over Sati be even more powerful? (see Sati thread). I think it might've been better for Smith to absorb people, to make their code part of his own, rather than overwrite them.

Both Neo and Smith died in the first movie and were reborned.
Smith evolved like Neo did. Taking over the Oracle did provide Smith with her power to foresee the future (until the point of choices).

Lysander wrote:

4. Is Neo the One, or not? If the first movie they set the One up as someone who can "remake the matrix as he sees fit," yet we don't see Neo exhibit power on anywhere near this scale in the second 2 movies. Basically he hits people really hard.

Yes, Neo is the One but Smith is his equal. The only way to defeat Smith is to terminate the One program. Changing the matrix is futile. Neo understood this after talking to the Oracle for the last time.

Lysander wrote:

5. Where did the light that came out of Neo's body in the real world come from?

Artistic rendering... it reminds me of common anime techniques (e.g., in Evangelion). The light also came from the cable that plugged into the back of his neck.

I think that's enough for now.[/quote]

macbob wrote:

'The One' is a program

That's your theory, not what the movie says. In fact, it's disconfirmed by the movie, because when Smith explodes, Neo's gone, while the programs Seraph, Sati, and the Oracle remain.

macbob wrote:

Yes, I saw that... but the sentinel has to pass through the ship's hull first.

I took it that the sentinel had gone through the windshield of the Logos.

macbob wrote:

So I take it that it's a metaphorical/virtual thing.

?

macbob wrote:

Remember, Neo is blind. He may feel that a sentinel has passed through him when in fact, it's only a signal that 'zapped' him.

Possible, but unlikely; it is inconsist with everything else, where what Neo sees corresponds to the actual locations.

I think it's just BILC, which I don't like.

macbob wrote:

He touched a sentinel and got uploaded to the Matrix.

He never touched a sentinel, and even if he had, that wouldn't make any sense.

macbob wrote:

Neo's mind is perpectually jacked into the Matrix.

There's no data path without the spike in his head. It would be like logging onto the internet with no phone or network connection. It just doesn't work that way.

macbob wrote:

Agent Smith was created to balance Neo's existence. Once Neo's taken over by Smith, the latter loses his reason to exst. Hence, the mass deletion.

That's just metaphysical nonsense. There is no compelling logic. Furthermore, it is consistent with the rest of the movie; Rama-Kandra says that his daughter has no purpose, and that purposeless programs are deleted. They don't explode.

macbob wrote:

Both Neo and Smith died in the first movie and were reborned.

So what? Even after rebirth, Smith was much less powerful than Neo. Smith surpasses Neo in a few hours, where no significant events happen, except for Smith taking the Oracle, which you aren't claiming is the source of his new power.

macbob wrote:

Neo is the One but Smith is his equal.

By the end, Smith is Neo's superior, not his equal (through unexplained means).

macbob wrote:

The only way to defeat Smith is to terminate the One program.

Shutting down the Matrix would have defeated Smith.

macbob wrote:

Artistic rendering...

In other words, nowhere.

Lets take a look at one important aspect of the ending of the trilogy. Why wouldn't the machines just attack the humans and erase them after neo returns to the source. Why not kill everyone anyway, that seems like the logic of a machine to me?

[quote="True Believer"]I challenge you all to not judge the movie on your lack of understanding of it, but to try to understand it all before you judge it, or simply admit that you didn't like it because it didn't make sense to you or was too hard to understand.

Nice example with the equation to prove just what? It is not a matter of understanding it is a matter of CONSISTENCY to giving certain ANSWERS! All the fans around the world understood everything until revolutions came up and not only did they understand but they did have a thirst and an apetite for more, given that they would get two things back: answers and constistency of the sory told.
The Wachowski brothers created a whole world just to end it with a spectacular bang! of special effects and 200 lines of script?Or to give us an ending with a profound meaning like "Hey guys the One saved the day, Zion stands, peace is at hand, choice and love was the key to the story, the oracle had the vision and the dream of peace in the matrix, morheus did in the REAL? world, Neo and Trinity meet up in another dimension and maybe we will see Neo in the future (Oracle's saying) so everything is fine!Right?". Well to my opinion NO you did an excellent job in the first two movies but you failed to answer what you created giving me the impression that you streched the story with twists and plot as long as you could (brilliantly i have to say) and when you saw you could not go more you ended it in the worst manner possible

Lysander wrote:

macbob wrote: 'The One' is a program That's your theory, not what the movie says.

I meant "The One" is a program that was downloaded into Neo's mind. This does not conflict with what the movie says... since throughout the movie, The One lives in Neo. According to the Oracle, Agent Smith is Neo's equal (but opposite)... so both of them could be programs. Smith replaces/destroys but The One empowers.

Lysander wrote:

In fact, it's disconfirmed by the movie, because when Smith explodes, Neo's gone, while the programs Seraph, Sati, and the Oracle remain.

Nope, the movie says nothing to disprove. Programs can be loaded on demand. We don't see 'The One' doesn't mean that it is gone. He may not be needed yet. We didn't even know about the Frenchman until the second movie.

Lysander wrote:

macbob wrote: Yes, I saw that... but the sentinel has to pass through the ship's hull first. I took it that the sentinel had gone through the windshield of the Logos.

Nope... subsequent scenes did not show that. The screen was still intact, and Logos would be severely damaged if a sentinel rammed into the cockpit. It would not have made it thru the clouds.

Lysander wrote:

macbob wrote: So I take it that it's a metaphorical/virtual thing. ?

So it's just something experienced by Neo alone (not Trinity). I personally find it interesting that Neo is getting closer and closer like the machines, and the programs (The Oracle, Smith, Frenchman, ...) are getting more and more human-like. But I've digressed.

Lysander wrote:

macbob wrote: Remember, Neo is blind. He may feel that a sentinel has passed through him when in fact, it's only a signal that 'zapped' him. Possible, but unlikely; it is inconsist with everything else, where what Neo sees corresponds to the actual locations.

True... but as the story goes, Neo may be experiencing changes. Afterall it's the first time he faced the entire machine city defense. He could be overwhelmed (In fact he was).

Lysander wrote:

I think it's just BILC, which I don't like. macbob wrote: He touched a sentinel and got uploaded to the Matrix. He never touched a sentinel, and even if he had, that wouldn't make any sense. macbob wrote: Neo's mind is perpectually jacked into the Matrix. There's no data path without the spike in his head. It would be like logging onto the internet with no phone or network connection. It just doesn't work that way.

Lysander, we don't know which year the Matrix is at. Today, we _have_ wireless technology. It is possible that the data path exist but we, as human, can't see them. In the movie, the sentinels raised their sensors when the truce was called, and left. So obviously, the data path exist in the human world. It works exactly as it should be.

Lysander wrote:

macbob wrote: Agent Smith was created to balance Neo's existence. Once Neo's taken over by Smith, the latter loses his reason to exst. Hence, the mass deletion. That's just metaphysical nonsense. There is no compelling logic. Furthermore, it is consistent with the rest of the movie; Rama-Kandra says that his daughter has no purpose, and that purposeless programs are deleted. They don't explode.

Visual effect aside, Smith was deleted, leaving behind all his former hosts (Yes ?). He did not explode, otherwise the hosts would be destroyed (Right ?). If you'd watched animes, you'd identify the same techniques used there (e.g., In anime, it is very common to use glow to highlight dramatic moments).

Lysander wrote:

macbob wrote: Both Neo and Smith died in the first movie and were reborned. So what? Even after rebirth, Smith was much less powerful than Neo. Smith surpasses Neo in a few hours, where no significant events happen, except for Smith taking the Oracle, which you aren't claiming is the source of his new power. macbob wrote: Neo is the One but Smith is his equal. By the end, Smith is Neo's superior, not his equal (through unexplained means). macbob wrote: The only way to defeat Smith is to terminate the One program.

The world is dynamic... at the beginning Neo is more powerful, then Smith. Smith power may grow as he assimilate more minds/programs. And no, I don't want to see Smith turning every Tom, Dick and Harry into himself. So they were not shown on screen. It is unclear whether Neo can be more powerful but that's beside the point. All Neo wanted to do is to destroy Smith without destroying the Matrix.... so that the machines can honor the truce. The machines seem to value the Matrix.

Lysander wrote:

Shutting down the Matrix would have defeated Smith. macbob wrote: Artistic rendering... In other words, nowhere.

Shut down the Matrix. Lysander, when you reboot your Windows, does the MSBLAST and any other virus you had go away ?

Euclid wrote:

Lets take a look at one important aspect of the ending of the trilogy. Why wouldn't the machines just attack the humans and erase them after neo returns to the source. Why not kill everyone anyway, that seems like the logic of a machine to me?

Hi Euclid,

The answer was provided by the Architect at the end of the movie: Because they are not human. The machines don't think like you and me, and will honor their words.

I thought the movie is all about exploring the differences and growth of both machines and mankind. The machines operate by the balance of equations, and the man by their feelings (love was identified). The rest are just karma (Cause and Effect).

True Believer wrote:

Don't judge the movie because you don't understand it.

You fail to deliver this one sentence clearly:
"There are movies you understand, but you don't like"
This is an important statement I miss in your post. You should state it clearly. Did you like the TV series "Knightrider"? Maybe not. Just admit you didn't understand it.

Arndt wrote:

beginning of the movie: golden code explosion, then golden fractals

This is the city 01 as Neo sees it.

Arndt wrote:

Smith's resp. Bane's statement "We were here before, it's always the same fight, do you remember, Mister Anderson?"

Could be the Oracle's power to forsee.

Arndt wrote:

The Wackos are still whiz kids, but they seemingly suffer from the famous Hollywood infection called George Lucasitis.

Or from script-theftitis.

I loved the Matrix, I liked Reloaded, I was disappointed with Revolutions. I accept not everyone had to understand the movie to enjoy it. But, IMO I think one thing was forgotten.

In the end, Revolutions is a movie and it's designed to entertain. If it doesn't do that, then it fails. I find having spoken to many of my friends and having read reviews of the movie that Revolutions was by and large entertaining. It succeeded in it's own destiny and it validates the efforts of the people that made it.

What was forgotten was that although not everyone needs to understand it. The vast majority of people should understand it. As far as I can tell, this is not the case. It's unfortunate and I think that it could have been a much better story, but it is the story that we were given and therefore we have to accept it for what it is.

My only insight into the "why" of things is that the oracle allowed herself to be assimilated specifically so that she could give Neo the final clue as how to defeat Smith. Without her intervention, the fight between Neo and Smith would have gone on indefinately. Only after the Smith reveals his forseeing of the events in their fight does Neo realize that in order to defeat Smith he had to join him.

This "balanced the equation" since that is one of the central themes of the story. Balance, cause AND effect. Without cause there is no effect and vice versa.

The oracle shows Neo that assimilation does not mean domination. She is able to speak to Neo, Smith is unaware at the time of it and it shows Neo that Smith may have copied himself onto others but that these entities are not destroyed and that Smith does not control them.

By joining Smith, Neo is able to do what he could not do externally. He is able to defeat Smith. Whether he dies in doing so or not is irrelevant because it's one of the "open ended" arguments that fuels boards like this.

There will not be a Matrix 4, but the story won't end. There are comic books, the online game and possibly more animated stories.

This is not the end..

Lorcoft wrote:

There will not be a Matrix 4, but the story won't end. There are comic books, the online game and possibly more animated stories. This is not the end..

Good point. And also the reason they didn't resolve it.

to be honest, I read the first post (maximum respect to true believer) and a couple below and skipped right to the last. to make a matrix 4 would be to remake the matrix 1. i believe they called it Revolutions for a reason (REVOLVE). you will notice that in the first matrix neo wakes up late for work. it says 9:18 on his clock. 18 is a multiple of 9 and 9 is the number of completion. the 1 and the 8 added together =9. revolve implies circular motion. there are 360 degrees in a circle. 3 + 6 + 0 = 9. on the computer screen at the end the date reads 9-18-99. need i say more? you wil notice that in revolutions there are a lot of scenes shot complimentary to a lot of the scenes in matrix 1. at the end of revolutions the archtect asked the oracle how long she thought the revolution would last which indicated that sooner or later the minds of the people in the 'virus free' matrix would again become infected and thus become potential agents. this would mean that after a certain amount of time the virus would spread to global proportions and require the return of the anomaly to 'disinfect' the matrix which leads us up to the conversation morpheus had with neo shortly after unplugging him in the first matrix. it revolves on and on until 'the source' sees fit.

if you dont accept the trilogy as absolute genius then that can only be because you dont know what its about or how relevant it is to you in 'real life' most people dont wanna know how deep the rabbit hole goes because they will become aware of how close we are to that war scene in revolutions and it will force them to stop making escuses, fix up and follow the rules sent down from the source. the film is like a digital bible/Quran if you only but knew. im not saying its as devine as scripture itself but lets face it, the world has got so messed up that its the closest thing to scripture this lazy world will give the time of day. to those who think any part of the trilogy is weak: THE MATRIX HAS YOU...

The only way any of it makes sense to me is if the entire 3 part spectacle was simulacra - hyperreality. Otherwise, there is no motivation for Neo's final sacrifice and no motivation for Deus Ex Machina to bargain with Neo. Neo must have understood that there was no breaking free of the illusion and the system of control. He was a cog designed for a specific purpose. He's code just like everything else we saw.

The biggest flaw in Revo is that it did not communicate this clearly. Sure, you can't be told what the Matrix is, you have to see it for yourself. But even with showing the golden fractals morphing into a green Matrix glyph, showing Neo seeing the "real world" in this code vision and having Morpheus ask, "Is this real?" - the majority of viewers needed them to hold up a sign that said - "Hey guys, the real world is just as fake as the Matrix."

Without that, most people didn't get the most important message in the movie. The majority of the fan base doesn't seem to have questioned reality since the first installment. So the brothers were not clear enough in their execution and that's why Revo falls flat.

I love these movies. I posted elsewhere that the one constant in all 3 is the the more often you see them the more you like them. I don't presume to understand them but I know that Revolutions made much more sense the 2nd and 3rd time around.

And, Lysander, like you, everyone keeps coming to me. I've got my thoughts and would welcome comments so that I can holefully gain a better understanding.

If we consider that is was a Butler Robot (the animatrix) that started this separation of humans and machines. The machines formed their own city, built the own stuff and wanted to trade with the Humans but were denied being treated as equals and thus the war began as humans tried to take control instead on sharing. (read that stuff in an article on MSN)

Now we come to revolutions. Karma is mentioned and I felt that signified that we live life over and over again, each time making differnt choices, but hopefully leaning more and more. The Oracle mentions the importance of choice and Smith makes reference to her that it's a little diffferent this time. I can't say for sure all the "different choices" that we made, but the Oracle said earlier she had a choice and here she is at it again. So she makes the choice to allow Smith to take her. This is differnt from the past "reboots".

Neo meets Seti and family at the station. Learns somethign new, the programs know love (I didn't say feel for the reason pointed out in the move, it's a word, but it's the associations made with that word). He may begin to sympathize with them. This has to be different from past "reboots' . I also want to mention that yes, Neo's power reaches outside the matrix, this is easy, but it needs to be said that it goes back to The Source and this is important.

The Neo Bane/Smith fight important, but it's happened before because to get to the last fight scene, Neo would have already been down that road. His ability to see the light and code outside the matrix. He is the One AND he comes from The Source. Biblical, I know.

I type too much.

So the movie is the same thing that has happened before. Each time Neo gets closer to the "end" and Karma with the lessons helps move it along.

So we got to the last fight scene - damn that kicked ass didn't it? and Smith with the Oracle's eyes knows how it going to end. Because all he can see is what happened the last time. So we have Neo lying on that rock after getting up over and over again and Smith going on about how he's been there before and then he "phases out" (don't know if that's the right choice) and says that every beginning has and end Neo. (here's where I may be corrected) Has Smith ever called him Neo? I don't think so which is why that was important to me, and I don't think the importance escaped Neo either. After learing what he has in this round and having a better understanding of the Machines. Going to The Source and asking for peace. He must sacrifice himself to save them all. He does and it's The Source that gives that last kick to destroy Smith.

Neo is taken by the Source and will be plugged in. Because even though this ending is different from past "reboots' peace will last as long as it can and Neo will be needed again.

I understood it to be that it is The Source that actually created Neo to act as the true go between and may be find an end to the war, even if it doesn't last forever.

That's a very broad explaination. So tell me all...does it make sense?

One more thing.. (sorry)

I don't remember any talk in any of the movies of destroying the machines, only ending the war. That was Neo's purpose...Peace. And it will last as long as it can.

Those that want to be freed will and those that don't will live in The Matrix, but there will be peace.

As a program, Neo served his purpose. (at least for now)