»Theory on the 3rd Matrix«

Well, I just saw Matrix reloaded again and came up with quite a theory for the 3rd Matrix. First of all, I believe there are multiple Matrices, how many of which I dont know. This I thought was pretty obvious from Reloaded, but anyways. I believe Neo is a computer program. Thats right he is a program just aas all of the ones before him were programs. He was made to take the 1% of the people(in Zion) who didnt believe in the 2nd matrix mind's off of the obvious fact that they are still indeed in a matrix. The other 99% of the people of Zion believe that there is one matrix of which they are free from. Neo's only purpose as a program was to take they non-conformist (1%) of the people's mind away from even thinking about a 2nd matrix and onto the war with the machines that they are facing, and to give them hope that they may win the battle. This means that Neo doesnt know that he is a program. He was made to do exactly as the other "ones" did, but he chose differently which is a threat to the 2nd matrix. This may sound ridiculous to you, and I am sure that i could explain it much better if i actualy talked with you and you gave me a Q&A of the sort. Please e-mail me and tell me how stupid or how ridiculous or maybe how logical and ingenious my theory is.

The beauty of a forum like this is to let others peek and give theit two testicles. Unless it is VERY personal we shoulf take advantage of the media.

Anyway, I am not sure if I got you right. I adhere also a multi matrix theory. But think about the implacations! The distinction between humans and programs wouldn't make any sense, because you have no more a sound criteria to distinguish one from another. As you said: Neo could be a program but appear to be human. It works vice versa: humans could be considered as programs.

So what matters? The personality and how much freedom (of choice) one can acquire. This would probably be an illusion to a certain extent, but the discovery of such could be used either to gain more power of choice, or the opposite: to give in to mindless and amoral determination.

You are a moron. I guarantee that I am much smarter than you and I had no idea what youi are talking about. What you said makes no logical since, and I feel much more stupid now that I have read your comment. Try to come up with a argument that makes since and then maybe you can call me wrong, but untill then please get a life and a brain.

Unfortunately we seem to have difficulties to understand each other. So I take a second try.

First, I didn't contradict you. I am not sure if I understood you fully.

Second, you asked for email contacts. I prefer normal forum communication in order to let others contribute.

Third, if there are all matrixes there ain't no superior 'reality'. Did you mean that too? What would be the base to rely on? If everything is virtual and only true from a certain point of view ... what is real?

Or do you think of any fix point or reality? What are the reasons for it?

What should be the base of what is important? I say, it is personality and character. The freedom to choose will mature understanding the truth. In contrast, some posters (I am not talking about Jason yet) got delured by the false argument of Smith.

Jason wrote:

He was made to do exactly as the other "ones" did, but he chose differently which is a threat to the 2nd matrix. This may sound ridiculous to you

Not after reading matrix-explained.com

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and I am sure that i could explain it much better if i actualy talked with you and you gave me a Q&A of the sort.

You surely could.

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Please e-mail me

What the...? Is this the reason why you don't join as a member but post as a guest?

I understand why people like the MIM theory, it fits in quite well with the scenario. There is one thing that bugs me with this theory.
As the architect said, and lets assume he wasnt lying, some people didnt accept the illusion of choice. Assuming that Zion is a subset of those who didnt accept choice, wouldnt they feel that Zion isnt real as well, the same way they felt about the matrix. Or, if zion is so advanced that they couldnt feel it, why isnt the whole matrix built that way?

Note, I have no theories or answers, just ideas and questions.

There are several why the people of Zion accept the 2nd matrix. One obvious reson is the fact that there are so many less people in Zion than inj the 1st matrix. The number of people who dont accept it is few and far between. Another reason is becasue the people of Zion whom already escaped the 1st matrix feel free and they feel that they are a part of the real world now, they have problems adjusting to this new life, so they arnt focusing on the fact that there is another matrix. Another reason is the fact that the world of Zion is so bad and messed up, that they dont think that a fake world would be so bad, why would the macines put them into a world that is bad, this is why so many left the first matrix, they thought it to be too fake, too easy. Another reason is, and my reason i belive Neo to be a program is that most people who wouldnt accept the 2nd matrix are distracted by the wear with the machines, and with Neo potentially winning this war. They are too preocupied with Neo and the future of Zion that there mind is clouded . This is why Neo is a program, the machines made the "ones" to distract the peoplke of the 2nd matrix who wouldnt accept it so that they dont come to realize that they are in a 2nd matrix. I hope this answers your question

i apologize for the misspelled words i cant type to save my soul.

Jason, did you read:

So, do we assume that Zion is controlled by machines? Then there is no need for Zion. Why not unplug humans when they try to escape from the matrix? I read the MIM theory very closely, and all topics are debatable.

- You take time into account, when in fact there is no exact evidence of what time it is.
- Trinity talks to Neo while in the matrix... What makes you think he has heared it.
- Residual image... weak point. Same DNA, same appearance.
- Bleeding... why not? maybe you have a slight point here.
- The spoon is talked about with emphasis. I dont see that it would have been bent. Why doesnt it get to its original shape.
- Architect's screens show real world... so there are no cameras in the real world?
- Blue color, I dont see much of a point
- Smith in the real world, is debatable. Why is his appearance different?

The only thing that supports your theory is the fact that Neo stopped the sentinels in the real world. I like the second theory, its interesting, something new. But remember, there are many possible solutions to this scene, and honestly doubt that it will be something as simple as MIM.

RISCII wrote:

So, do we assume that Zion is controlled by machines? Then there is no need for Zion. Why not unplug humans when they try to escape from the matrix? I read the MIM theory very closely, and all topics are debatable.

So did you read:
"Zion cannot be fake, because this collides with the story"
?

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You take time into account, when in fact there is no exact evidence of what time it is.

Well, the Matrix cannot be thousands of years old, since then Zion's equipment wouldn't work. Thus Zion is a fake or the previous Zions lasted very short.

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Architect's screens show real world... so there are no cameras in the real world?

No, there are no cameras in Zion (or the ships) connected to every person, so that the Architect could show Neo's live in Zion.

I agree, however, that the other points you list there are weak evidence.

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The spoon is talked about with emphasis

That's because there are so many arguments and counter-arguments surrounding it. Not because it's a strong evidence.

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The only thing that supports your theory

1) You don't know what my theory is
2) It's not the only thing that supports it. All the points mentioned by you support it (although weakly). Neo stopping the sentinels is however one of the stronger theories.

I suppose that the best theory so far (= the theory that explains everything we have seen+been told in Matrix 1 & 2) is

Ever-cycle: Zion and/or the Matrix are reloaded every couple of years.

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But remember, there are many possible solutions to this scene

...which are all mentioned on matrix-explained.com (I hope)

knnknn wrote:

Well, the Matrix cannot be thousands of years old, since then Zion's equipment wouldn't work.

maybe, but the way i see it all fitting together the machines want zion to work. they want people to live there for a while, and then they want to kill them. so, if machines want to make zion work, they could find ways of providing zion with parts or whatever. keep in mind that the freed minds think that "not too long ago" a war happened. well, it wouldn't take a genius to go around and look for usable parts. i know its simple, but the machines could leave some junk behind.

0x587e1a2c wrote:

the machines could leave some junk behind.

Or make a simulation of junk

No replys I read actually toucehd base with my theory. I Dont see how you can use this web site as evidense why a theory could be wrong consideing a person wrote this website and they dont know whats going on either. As for not needing Zion, i explained why they need it, it is pretty much a failsafe for the people who escape the 1st matrix so that they or others dont completly escape. Please never quote from the web site again its really gay becasue everything on here is just theories and just other people whom dont know the slightest idea of whether or not they are right or wrong.

jason wrote:

No replys I read actually toucehd base with my theory. I Dont see how you can use this web site as evidense why a theory could be wrong consideing a person wrote this website and they dont know whats going on either. As for not needing Zion, i explained why they need it, it is pretty much a failsafe for the people who escape the 1st matrix so that they or others dont completly escape.

You are totally right with the possibility of your theory. I just wanted to say, that these possibilities are already discussed at

I admit that you do have much in advance of me: Your typos seem to be consistent and removes the need of screen name and passwords.

Unfortunately you didn't adress my questions: If there is a second and third matrix - is there also a reality?

As long as you explain nothing I wouldn't call your contribution a theory but an immature idea.

sorry

To whom did you address that? To Jason I suppose.

Nevertheless, regarding the 3rd Matrix:

No



Let's say, that Zion is a simulation, then we know only of 1 Matrix. It's a matrix with several side simulations.

It's like sleeping and you have side dreams, parallel dreams, dreams in dreams, dreams of traps, being trapped in dreams etc...

but in fact there is only 1 dream. Thus there is only the simulation and the world outside of it.

This world wasn't featured yet in the movies. Thus it may be that all dreamers
* are prisoners on an ice planet, being plugged and observed by prison personnel
* are amoeba like giant jelly fish floating in oceans of sulphur

to just-a-program.... i have no idea how u came to conclude that i said there is no reality by saying there is more than one matrix. of coarse there is a reality that goes withourt saying . so once again u aare just- an- idiot

jason wrote:

to just-a-program.... i have no idea how u came to conclude that i said there is no reality by saying there is more than one matrix. of coarse there is a reality that goes withourt saying.

At least you tried to respond my question half way. Which reality do you take for granted? It is not the one of Zion, and not the Matrix, according to your idea. Do we have a clue what is real ... and why?

Let us assume you take the destroyed earth and the machines and the hives and the giant computer for creating the matrix for reality ... but not Zion. How the heck would you know that this is real and everything else is virtual? Because you are made to think so??? See the comment of knnknn

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This world wasn't featured yet in the movies. Thus it may be that all dreamers * are prisoners on an ice planet, being plugged and observed by prison personnel * are amoeba like giant jelly fish floating in oceans of sulphur

He illustrated the problem quite well.

i dont think that they have shown the real world yet. although it doesnt really matter, it is not a problem, it will be exactly the same as the fields that they showed on the first matrix.

Alright, now I know that this might seem a little "out there" but just here me out, what if this whole thing was just Neo's dream? like what if it ends with Neo waking up at his computer just before Trinity starts doing that thing on the screen? He wakes up expecting it to happen, but it never does. I took the liberty of doing some research to come up with quotes that support this theory.

Morpheus: You have the look of a man who accepts what he sees because he is expecting to wake up. Ironically, that's not far from the truth.

Neo: You ever have that feeling where you're not sure if you're
awake or still dreaming?
Choi: Mm-hmm. All the time! It's called Mescaline....It's the
only way to fly.

Agent Smith: But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was re-designed to this: the peak of your civilization.

Morpheus: Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?

Pay special attention really to that last one. They all pretty much support my theory but some better than others.

If you want to understand the structure of the Matrix, look at the very end of Beyond on the Animatrix. It shows a series of simulations connected in a vast network.

DreamWorld wrote:

what if this whole thing was just Neo's dream?

If already the idea "Zion is not real" aggrevates people then this idea will be responsible for some deaths at Warner Studios.

Animatrix, Matrix, Games: Everything a junkie's dream.

Do you remember 'Dallas'?
Patrick Duffy was fired (wanted too much money) but the viewers wanted him back so badly, that he had to come back.
So what to do with the already aired episodes (showing his death, family grief etc)?
Simple: One day a woman wakes up and finds him under the shower. What the..? She has dreamt it all along. How lame.

sorry, I came late to this thread, so I haven't read all the posts yet... but heres my two testicles: the only way I see the MWAM theory working, is that the 1% of people who do not accept what they see need someone to put their faith in as a type of savior. With faith, the people who normally reject the matrix will accept the Zion matrix.
I think the Wachowski's are probably humanist, so the idea of religion being a higher system of control would probably fit in with their thinking.

Sorry to crush your dreams...but there is no theory in the Matrix just ideas that leave us asking the question. Why O Why did they make the second movie?