»The oracle and the end«

the whole time during M3 the oracle talked about choice and you can't see past it. Think of the ending as the wackowski bros. as the oracle and the audience as neo. We have to make the choices whether neo is dead zion is another form of the matrix and what not.

Subtopic:

Zion is real cause neo would have tried to save trinity the way he did in m2 while they were in the matrix. Also why would the machines show there real self in a another form of the matrix.

Suptopic:

My fav part of the movie( not including the fight for zion) even though it was real short when trinity and neo fly above the black clouds and see the world as it really is.

Please reply if you have more thought's and /or agree

i think it was established that neo is dead...

he went back to the source just like Smith did. beginning and end...
rule of the matrix is, you die in the matrix, you die in real life.

Revolutions answered that Zion is the real world. There is no other interpretation because the alternative doesnt make sense for a story/movie. What would all the war and sacrifices for if theyre all still in another matrix.

The reason why the Oracle keeps saying they cannot see past the choices is becaue everything that Neo does is allowed by the machines and calculated matematically -- just like the entire Matrix world. Everything in the matrix follows the mathmatical theory designed by the architect. But the theory is not perfect. Just like all theoris, anomalies creep in. And the only only way to correct it is to allow the anomaly to exist. This is where Neo comes in to play. The only way to make the matrix theory work is for a Neo to make a choice in the end.
Being an unpredictable specie, the choice that a human make is random hence the architect or the oracle cannot make mathematical calculations to predict what choice Neo will make. This is what it means by "they cannot see beyong the choices". Its nothing paranormal.. it just pure math and science.
Being at that, their is no alternative stories to what the Wachowatever brothers intended. The story intends to indulge in mythicsm and yet remain purely scientifically possible.

and when the Oracle mentioned that someday Neo will be back, he will be back. He must come back because, again, he is the anomaly that is required balance the matrix.

I've argued with my friends about this for a while.
He claims, at the end, it is the oracle lying in the puddle, but I argue that it is Neo lying face down in the puddle.
It wouldn't make sense if it was the Oracle, because that kind of cinematic shot would imply that she was dead.
The reason he argues it is the Oracle is because the shape appears to have breasts, but I think it is merely Neo's shoulders combined with the small of his back, aswell as he is wearing Black, which is something the Oracle doesn't do.
Thoughts?

Also, I agree that Neo is dead.
When they show that last shot where it is the gold outline of whatever Neo is lying on, I think it was just for dramatic effect, not necessarily implying that that is what Neo was looking at right then.

I just have a simple question...that no one seems to want to discuss.

What exactly did the Oracle do differently this time around? She took "a big risk" according to the Architect, and "change" according to her. So what was the difference....what is this the 6th Matrix....

Was it that she helped create Agent Smith(he called her Mom didn't he....seems she and Architect created all other programs)....Okay she predicted Trinity would fall in love with the "one" and therefore self-fulfilling prophecy...Trinity did. And this "one" actually chose the left door for the first time....because of the direct feeling of love.
Neo chose the left....and faced down Smith for the first time....(since the other times he just turned right and went to the source and everything just started over again)

So Neo beat Smith because he was mathematically his opposite....therefore he just fritzed him out.

So what was the Oracles plan than? She definetly had one, Smith even realized that when he copied himself on her....Why did she have him do that?

What was her plan?

Ok. Is Neo definetly dead? Wasn't he the remainder of the mathematical equation in the Matrix, to balance out the subconscious choice mankind has....But for now....that subconscious choice is gone....So Neo wouldn't actually have to return to the source than, right?

-CKO

Lots of math theorums have certain problems with them. A lot of the time you end up with two answers.

x = SquareRoot(36)
could be 6, or -6
left door, right door?

This theory explains how the Oracle didn't always know how it would end. Maybe the Oracle came to understand the power of love more when being around Sati, which caused her to believe in Neo.

To answer Irish Duke's question, the big risk the Oracle took was letting herself get turned into a smith. It was a big risk because she gave Smith so much power, and placed her faith in Neo to travel to the Source, so Smith could be stopped.

At the end she admits to not always knowing how it would turn out, but she believed Neo would do the right thing.

The Oracle has subtly influenced the choices of The ONE to create a Lose-lose situation for the human world and the machine world. I don't want to repeat the long articles in

roborat wrote:

Quote:

he went back to the source just like Smith did. beginning and end...

I don't know about you but I found Smiths predicament an incredibly sad one..He came to understand that the purpose of all life is death...How incredibly sad..no wonder I cried..

macbob wrote:

The Oracle has subtly influenced the choices of The ONE to create a Lose-lose situation for the human world and the machine world.

WOW... those were my thoughts exactly. She definitely manipulated his a$$ at every turn.

macbob wrote:

She could have left earlier to avoid Smith. Instead she allowed Agent Smith to assimilate her. By doing so, Smith has definitely gone out of control because he now has access to the internals of the Matrix.

never really thought about that... but either way it went, Smith would have assimilated the entire matrix anyway... she just made it a whole lot easier. As a program himself, though, I think Smith would have eventually found the keys to Machine City (he could have absorbed them from the trainman.)

macbob wrote:

I think when Neo met the "Sea-urchin" shaped machine, the latter did not believe the machines needed Neo's help initially. But on second thought (perhaps they try to contact the Oracle), they'd changed their mind.

I think they're just pissed that they need him... you never bargain from a position of weakness. They know they're in deep shit, but they're too proud to bend down and kiss Neo's behind to ask for help.

He claims, at the end, it is the oracle lying in the puddle, but I argue that it is Neo lying face down in the puddle.
It wouldn't make sense if it was the Oracle, because that kind of cinematic shot would imply that she was dead.
>>>She's obviously not dead because she is in the next scene or whenever.
it is the Oracle is because the shape appears to have breasts, but I think it is merely Neo's shoulders combined with the small of his back,
>>>If you look closely, you can actually see her face.
aswell as he is wearing Black, which is something the Oracle doesn't do.
>>>If you look closely again, she isn't wearing black, it's the same outfit she was wearing when Smith got her. It just looks dark because the scene is at night and her clothes are wet.


Still Lost

At the end of M3, it is the oracle lying on her back and you can clearly see that. I do not understand how anyone can miss that unless you've only seen the movie once.

It was the orcales purpose to lead the anomoly to the source, every Anomly grows up with life expierences to love all humanity, so therefore they would choose the right door.

This time around the Oracle gave the Anomly Specific love, not general love, so Neo was Selfish enough too choose the left door and save his love. Both worlds were almost destroyed as a result of the Oracle going Rouge.

Agent Smith was a Program of the Architect to counter the Oracle, it was his answer for her going rouge. His main objective was too copy Neo and Balance the eqation.