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»Matrix -Hinduconcept ?«

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Symbols in the Matrix & References to existing philosophies

 

kevin22

Matrix -Hinduconcept ?  

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i have seen Revolution today

I found that the concept of the film was hinged on Hinduism.

He realizes that everything around him is ’’mithya’’, only The Almighty is real.

And in the end of the film Hindu mantra(song)playing

Asatoma Sadgamaya
Thamaso Maa Jyothir Gamaya
Mrithyor Maa Amrutham Gamaya
Aum Shanti Shanti Shantihi

Meaning: Lead me from the unreal to the real. Lead me from darkness to light. Lead me from death to immortality. May there be peace everywhere.

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kevin22

Matrix means MAYA  

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In the film The matrix
Morpheus tells Neo,
’’What if you were to wake up from a dream which was so real that you found it difficult to differentiate between the dream world, and the real world?’’

’’What is real? How do you define real? If real is what you see, or touch, or feel, then, real is merely electrical impulses interpreted by your brain!’’


Hinduism says

The reality of this world is illusion…..Maya. Everything around us is Maya, things we see, taste, touch,…..everything. All around us, Maya is believed to be a dream that Lord Vishnu is seeing as he sleeps.

In the film

Morpheus and gang are transported from the real world to the digital world through computer wizardry. What they see of themselves in the digital world is a mental projection of themselves.


Hinduism says

We live in this dream world, oblivious of reality. When one comprehends reality, that he and The Almighty are one, he renounces all his belongings, his ego and his identity because he realizes that all material belongings, his material ego and his earthly entity is just his imagination ( Mithya ) of what he thinks he is.

He realizes that everything around him is ’’mithya’’, only The Almighty is real.


In the film

Little Boy-who-bent-the-spoon tells Neo, ’’To bend the spoon, you need to understand reality…….there is no spoon…….then you will realize that it is not the spoon that bends, it is yourself

In the end, when Neo finally understands reality, and sees the world around as a computer program, he is virtually all-knowing and omnipotent ( able to stop bullets and the likes! )


Hinduism says

So also, when a man realizes The Eternal Truth, he attains Divine Knowledge, ’’Nirvana’’. He conquers all fear, all difficulties, all pain, all sorrow. He experiences Eternal peace, Eternal Knowledge and Eternal Happiness.
In fact, the state in which Neo is depicted in the film is somewhat similar to what the scriptures tell us about Buddha and Mahavir on attaining Nirvana.

All this and many other analogies which cannot be sufficiently be put into words led me to believe that the film, ‘The Matrix’, besides being a technological masterpiece is unbelievably inspired from the Hindu scriptures.

I understand that few, if not none may agree to what I have said above. Some may think I have lost my mind, to others it may seem that I am renouncing the world tomorrow.
But the sole motive behind this review is nothing but to share with you readers, what I saw in ‘The Matrix, what disturbed but subtly eluded me, and what I finally came to realize through some really intense research on the subject of Spiritualism and Hinduism and relating it to……

kevin22

word Net of Illusion --->Matrix)  

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"Maya has several levels of which illusion is one level. The basic foundation on which The Matrix trilogy is based assumes that ours is a computer-coded world - an illusion. In this regard, there's a parallel," The Vedas state that whatever is happening all around is Maya, a dream which Lord Vishnu sees as He sleeps. Maya shields the truth or Brahman from the self or Atman. Because Maya veils the truth, the Atman misconstrues both the world and itself as different from the Brahman.

This recalls the Vedanta concept of mithya, the belief that only the Almighty is real. The Vedantas say that humans live in a world of illusion and, when we comprehend this reality, we realise that man and the Almighty are one. It is then that man realises that his earthly entity is just his imagination, a reflection of what he thinks he is.

kevin22

Matrix-Bhagvad Geeta.  

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Please read some of the similarities that (i think) i have found in the Bhagvad Geeta.





Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the film, Morpheus and gang are transported from the real world to the digital world through computer wizardry. What they see of themselves in the digital world is a mental projection of themselves.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Bhagvad Geeta 18:39

The Blessed Lord said: "And that happiness which is blind to self-realization, which is delusion from beginning to end and which arises from sleep, laziness and illusion is said to be of the nature of ignorance."

-----------------------------



Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morpheus tells Neo: ’’What if you were to wake up from a dream which was so real that you found it difficult to differentiate between the dream world, and the real world?’’

’’What is real? How do you define real? If real is what you see, or touch, or feel, then, real is merely electrical impulses interpreted by your brain!’’
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Bhagvad Geeta 5:15

The Blessed Lord said: "Nor does the Supreme Lord assume anyone’s sinful or pious activities. Embodied beings, however, are bewildered because of the ignorance which covers their real knowledge."

------------------------




Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the film: Little Boy-who-bent-the-spoon tells Neo, ’’To bend the spoon, you need to understand reality…….there is no spoon…….then you will realize that it is not the spoon that bends, it is yourself
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fatpie42

Re: Matrix means MAYA  

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kevin22 wrote:


The reality of this world is illusion…..Maya. Everything around us is Maya, things we see, taste, touch,…..everything. All around us, Maya is believed to be a dream that Lord Vishnu is seeing as he sleeps.
....

So also, when a man realizes The Eternal Truth, he attains Divine Knowledge, ’’Nirvana’’. He conquers all fear, all difficulties, all pain, all sorrow. He experiences Eternal peace, Eternal Knowledge and Eternal Happiness.


Isn't this Buddhism? In Buddhist Tradition Maya is a jealous God who wishes to prevent us from becoming enlightened and escaping Samsara (the world).

I thought Hindus were attempting to achieve Moksha which is like becoming a part of Brahman (the almighty God of which all other Gods are only manifestations). Nirvana on the other hand is the buddhist afterlife which is reached, not through simply improvment of karma (attained by virtue), but by gaining enlightenment. Nirvana is said to be neither somewhere nor nowhere. To be in Nirvana is neither being nor not being.

Please tell me if I got this wrong....

"I am more than man, more than life! I am a GOD!"
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matrixfan00

Re: Matrix means MAYA - True!  

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Fatpie42 wrote:

kevin22 wrote:

The reality of this world is illusion…..Maya. Everything around us is Maya, things we see, taste, touch,…..everything. All around us, Maya is believed to be a dream that Lord Vishnu is seeing as he sleeps.
....

So also, when a man realizes The Eternal Truth, he attains Divine Knowledge, ’’Nirvana’’. He conquers all fear, all difficulties, all pain, all sorrow. He experiences Eternal peace, Eternal Knowledge and Eternal Happiness.
Isn't this Buddhism? In Buddhist Tradition Maya is a jealous God who wishes to prevent us from becoming enlightened and escaping Samsara (the world).

I thought Hindus were attempting to achieve Moksha which is like becoming a part of Brahman (the almighty God of which all other Gods are only manifestations). Nirvana on the other hand is the buddhist afterlife which is reached, not through simply improvment of karma (attained by virtue), but by gaining enlightenment. Nirvana is said to be neither somewhere nor nowhere. To be in Nirvana is neither being nor not being.

Please tell me if I got this wrong....


Great point. Buddhism and Hinduism have many common philosophical and spiritual principles. Buddha (or "Goutama") was originally a Hindu prince, and many of these principles and thoughts can be directly traced to the Upanishads (one of the oldest spiritual books of Hinduism, sacred chants from which actually happen to be part of Revolutions' ending musical score). It is true that Nirvana is used more in the Buddhist sense, while Moksha is used more in the Hindu context. While there are subtle differences between the two, the basic idea behind both is pretty much the same - Overcoming "maaya", realizing your imperfections due to your innate human nature, realizing that you are a part of something larger, breaking free out of the cycle of action-and-reaction through "karma" and finally achieving a higher spiritual/divine goal. Buddhism doesn't explicity acknowledge Brahman, which is regarded as the Absolute Truth in Hinduism, and which can be achieved by submitting yourself to Vishnu - the Supreme Saviour. The Bhagvad-Gita (which is to Hindus what Bible is to Christians or Koran is to Muslims) conveys that Vishnu is the Supreme Lord. In fact, many Hindu sects (e.g: The Hare-Rama-Hare-Krishna ones) interpret Brahman as the "impersonal" side of Vishnu. Interestingly, many Hindus (mostly in North India) regard Buddha as the latest incarnation of Vishnu (successive to Lord Krishna). Buddhism is actually more "atheistic" than Hinduism, so-to-speak, although both use a lot of metaphorical or mythological depictions in general. And in fact a depiction in one of the two religions has at times a direct parallel in the other.

mohit12

matrix says what is true. It is the latest findings  

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Theory says that it is human or living souls design the world. It is designed with the help of Maya who loads what we like and gives us in our other lives. That is Maya is a program which acts according to the wishes of all souls. It acts by recording our thought and will and we are the programmers.

God is the one who created the world.Though he does not need the world to teach us or make us realize what is right. He can do it without this world. but he created the to make us realize it.

All what matrix shows are not real but it seems to us as real.

like the lady who got tempted or oracle controlling Neo is the proof that the world was created only to allow us experience what we liked.

Matrix is also could be interpreted in this context.

i dont belive everything but trust nothing.
Gawen

  

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Welcome to the pagan world of myths. Now add this and you know what the battle is about:


The Kalachakra Tantra Prophecy of Shambhala

"Although Shambhala exists on a different plane or higher dimension, it also has a dual nature with parallel locations on or in the earth.

Shambhala is known by the Celtics as the mystical “Avalon”, hidden in the mists of illusion. Once our home, now mostly forgotten except in our dreams, our soul still goes there for healing and revitalization. It is a land without time, full of power and mystery, offering enlightenment to the traveler that is fortunate enough to enter its gates.

Maya, Goddess of Illusion tells us “First you must remember, then find the key, and then escape.”
The world is a labyrinth and few will find the egress, but for the seeker of truth the entrance to Shambhala is possible. Its path is archaic, but tried, tested and true.
We need to
Remember why we are here. That the earth we try to live and think we die on is nothing but a dark and dusty alchemical laboratory of transmutations. It is here that we prepare and become worthy for a greater destiny of real life in the Universes.
Remember that what you give and receive in life… and learn from… will provide the keys to immortality.
Remember dark will bring darkness and light will bring light.
Remember that everything is dual in nature. Everything is mirrored by its own counterfeit…including Shambhala.
On your path in search of Shambhala, armor yourself in the light, keeping your intentions and thoughts pure. Use life now to burn off old karma and learn from.

Just as we create realities through thought in our 3 dimensional world, I believe Shambhala will also create realities for the seeker based on his true nature.
If the seeker has selfish or dark intentions, the path to Shambhala will be filled with perils . Dimensional veils may be parted unleashing terrifying horrors.

The people of Tibet and Mongolia also believe that Shambhala is a hidden kingdom with a community where perfect and semiperfect beings live, guiding the evolution of mankind. It is the gateway between the physical and spiritual world, hidden from the non believer and impure by a psychic barrier. This barrier will only reveal and open its doors to the believers pure in heart.

Beneath the land of Shambhala lies a cavernous underworld, peopled with gods below as the heavens above. Its summit aligns to the wheeling constellation of Ursa Major, the Seven Stars that circle the Pole which the ancients viewed as gods of wisdom.

Through our history, people of the world have sought to find this realm of cosmic harmony hidden within the veils of Avalon. They literally tried to bring heaven to earth by building temples and pyramids in the center of their cities to function as patterns of this paradise.

The Sumerians built a temple which was called ‘The House of the Mountain’ and knew it as ‘the bond of heaven and earth’. The central hub bound the heavens, underworld and human world together. Seven tiers led up to the shrine on its summit, which mirrored the legend of the seven gated underworld below. ‘What is above , so shall be below’.

Glastonbury in southwest England was once one of these cosmic centers. The summit on the strange shaped hill of Glastonbury Tor is the site of a holy shrine predating any medieval church.
Local legends have it that an entrance to Annwn, the British/Welshname for the Underworld is located here. In recent years evidence of a seven-tiered labyrinth encircling the Tor , from base to summit, has been uncovered. This area has been frequented as a place of power going back as far as the Bronze Age and beyond.

Shambhala is considered to be the source of the Kalacakra, which is the highest and most esoteric branch of Tibetan mysticism. According to the Kalachakra Tantra Prophecy, a line of enlightened kings guard the highest wisdoms for the time when all spiritual values in the outside world are lost in wars and destruction. At that time, a great king will come out of the Shambhala kingdom to defeat the forces of evil and establish the Golden Age.

The prophecy of Shambhala gives us a hint of the coming Golden Age. There will be 32 kings, each reigning for a 100 years. As their reigns pass conditions, of the world will deteriorate. Wars will break out in the pursuant of power. Materialism will overcome spiritualism and spread over the world. Then the 'barbarians' who follow this ideology of power and materialism are united under one evil king , assuming there is nothing left to conquer. When this time comes, the mists will then lift to reveal the icy mountains of Shambhala. Seeing the promised lands of Shambhala, the barbarians will then attack Shambhala with a huge army equipped with terrible weapons. The 32nd king of Shambhala, Rudra Cakrin, ‘The Wrathful One with the Wheel’ will rise from his throne and lead a mighty host against the invaders destroying the army of barbarians. After the battle has been won, the rule of Shambhala will cover the world, bringing in the greatest Age of all times. Food will grow without work, there will be no disease or poverty, hatred and jealousies will be replaced with love and the great saints and sages of the past will return to life to teach true wisdom of the Ages.

Rudka Cakrin is known as ‘the Cakravartin’ or ‘the possessor of the wheel‘. This wheel supposedly is a wheel of iron that falls from the sky to mark the beginning of his reign. Some may see this ‘wheel of iron falling from the sky as a metaphor.

In the Kalachkra, one can find the necessary teaching provided for preparation of the prophesized war. We find in it ‘the psychology of invasions’ and detailed instructions on how to build various machines to ward off the invaders. The sacred texts go on to say the Dark Age will last until the year 2424 AD, when a ‘great war’ will begin in India. The human race will be rescued from total destruction by the armies of Shambhala riding ‘flying horses’ and ‘boats that fly in the air’."


Add the seventh seal and armageddon of the bible, plus some neopagan "do as ye will!" and the triple goddess (oracle/trinity/sati) and you will get "The Matrix". 2424 ad fits to the decoration. *g*

cnm72

  

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this is the best thread that I have seen on this forum....

kudos to you all for the research and passing this on for us to mull over

---

CNM
ralph_angelus

the soundtrack philosophy  

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after m3, people are saying that the matrix is a metaphor for hinduism, in addition to christianity, gnosticism, and whatnot. but the 'trigger' for that association is the 'asatoma' mantra in the navras song. thats the reason we started to associate hinduism with the matrix. of course, the maya concept is also very apt, but we didnt think of maya until we heard that mantra. and any other associations with gita or upanishads - u can create innumerable such associations with a symbolic movie and ANY philosophy or religion, if u put in enough imagination. ur making a mountain out of a molehill.

but the mantra, which is the reason for our association need not imply a connection to hinduism at all. for many reasons.
1) its just part of the soundtrack. how can u interpret a movie frm its soundtrack?
2) the 3rd movie was designed specifically to cater the cultural baggage, traditions, and religious leanings of the orient.
a must-read interpretation of the movie :

metaphilm.com...

so the addition of a mantra frm the vedas was just to please the east in general and indians in particular. this explanation applies to the choice of the name 'sati', too.
3) if u know the rest of the mantra(not part of the song), it speaks of a saviour, to whom it is addressed. the w. bros included this because this complements their (judaeo-christian?) saviour concept, which is the central theme of the movie, as anyone knows. many christian preachers (in india, of course) use this very mantra during their sermons, because the saviour invoked in the mantra sounds very similiar to theirs. the w. bros may have used it with the same intention.

allright, the matrix may make a few oblique references to hinduism. but thats all. to say the matrix 'hinges' on hinduism is, needless to say, exaggeration. and those quotes from the gita are so generic they could apply to almost anything related to attaining knowledge.

(from the link on ur profile), kevin, r u one of those hindutva hate-mongers who want to trash our beloved nation? then y do u call urself kevin? y dont u call urself HateMongerForArjuna or something instead of a christian name? just curious

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Gawen

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ralph_angelus wrote:

(from the link on ur profile), kevin, r u one of those hindutva hate-mongers who want to trash our beloved nation? then y do u call urself kevin? y dont u call urself HateMongerForArjuna or something instead of a christian name? just curious


If it comes to patriotism you should read the army handbook on the religions it knows. There are many.

KEVIN
(origin: Celtic.) From Coemhghin, the beautiful offspring, aoibhinn, pleasant, comely. Caomhan, a noble, kind, and friendly man.

Celtic and vedic deities are one family, did you know? There was religion before christianity and there will be religion after. Calling someone with different believes a hate-monger in addition to wrong informations is what? Stupid hate talk?

ralph_angelus

ur the one without information  

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all christian names are derived from 'pagan'(strictly within quotes) and hebrew names. thanx for the etymology.

gawen, if ur not frm india, ur unlikely to know anything abt hindutva and y they are called hatemongers. i dont think ur that stupid, but just for the record, hindutva and hinduism are not the same thing. in case u wanna know, hindutva is an extremist form of hinduism, like the Al-Qaeda is of Islam(maybe that comparison is not apt, because Al-qaeda only wants to harm the west, but hindutva wants to destroy their own motherland. but they have the same basis - hatred of others). they have been responsible for innumerable massacres/mobs etc. their stated aim is to turn indian democracy into a hindu theocracy (so i can say that i have 'righteous anger', but i wont) , with muslims and other religions cast out or preferrably turned to dead meat. so if i call them hate-mongers, its not stupid hate talk, its just an affirmation of their objectives. i have nothing against hinduism, the religion of my ancestors and the majority of my countrymen.

and its quite logical to assume that kevin is into hindutva, if u look at the link on his profile. if u already knew all this, sorry.

Gawen

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ralph_angelus wrote:

hindutva is an extremist form of hinduism, like the Al-Qaeda is of Islam

... and the Irish Republican Army (IRA) is of catholizism and the Ulster Unionists are of protestantism.

The only way to stop hate is not to get infected by it and to start talking in a civilized way. For some Jesus is the saviour, for others Rudra Chakrin.

Neo wanted to end the war for them all...

ralph_angelus

i'm human too  

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Quote:

... and the Irish Republican Army (IRA) is of catholizism and the Ulster Unionists are of protestantism.

yes, each religion has its share of idiots. but isnt the mess in Ireland more of a nationalist struggle? there are religious undercurrents, ofcourse.

Quote:

The only way to stop hate is not to get infected by it and to start talking in a civilized way.

yes, i was becoming a bit like them with provocative statements. but i had a reason. i've never had the chance to debate religious extremism with an extremist. kevin, if ur still on the forum, i'd appreciate an exposition of ur views on the subject.

who is Rudra Chakrin? i'm assuming he is some sort of Celtic deity. is that ur religious leaning? where can i find more info on it?

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Rudra is the old vedic wild side of the god Shiva and Rudra Cakrin an incarnation in the myth of the battle of shambhala. Similarities to Jesus in the battle of armageddon at mount zion. Mix and integrate both and get Neo (imho).

" The 32nd king of Shambhala, Rudra Cakrin, ‘The Wrathful One with the Wheel’ will rise from his throne and lead a mighty host against the invaders destroying the army of barbarians. After the battle has been won, the rule of Shambhala will cover the world, bringing in the greatest Age of all times. Food will grow without work, there will be no disease or poverty, hatred and jealousies will be replaced with love and the great saints and sages of the past will return to life to teach true wisdom of the Ages. "

One needs to know both the kalachakra tantra and the bible to understand what its all about.

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I would like to say that I am very impressed with Ralph's insights. I must admit that I found it strange that the movie should suddenly become based on Hinduism in the final chapter (I'm going to have a look at that link in a moment).

As for Hindutva, if it has any link with the massacre at Ayodha (um.. probably wrong spelling) or any other similar massacres in India then I must say that I am as appalled by it as you. I think such intolerant views are horrible especially in a country with such a wide diversity of belief and religious tolerance (internally at least, if not when dealing with foreign countries ie. Pakistan). The BJP supports this kind of view doesn't it? I think it is scary when people with intolerant views like that can gain political strength.

I must admit that my knowledge of India is only limited. Also despite what I have seen it may be wrong for me to call India a country tolerant of religion. Since I spent most of my time in Darjeeling with Buddhist monks I did not see much of a conflict between religions. Please forgive any mistakes I may have made.

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Re: the soundtrack philosophy  

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[quote="ralph_angelus"]

but the mantra, which is the reason for our association need not imply a connection to hinduism at all. for many reasons.
1) its just part of the soundtrack. how can u interpret a movie frm its soundtrack?
2) the 3rd movie was designed specifically to cater the cultural baggage, traditions, and religious leanings of the orient.
a must-read interpretation of the movie :

metaphilm.com...

so the addition of a mantra frm the vedas was just to please the east in general and indians in particular. this explanation applies to the choice of the name 'sati', too.
3) if u know the rest of the mantra(not part of the song), it speaks of a saviour, to whom it is addressed. the w. bros included this because this complements their (judaeo-christian?) saviour concept, which is the central theme of the movie, as anyone knows. many christian preachers (in india, of course) use this very mantra during their sermons, because the saviour invoked in the mantra sounds very similiar to theirs. the w. bros may have used it with the same intention.

1) read the transcript of the W bros interview on
whatisthematrix.com...

They mention that most of the elements (names, images etc) have a special purpose behind it. It is also mentioned in this forum that the ending song of all the Matrix movies have a purpose. M1 and M2 were ended with songs of RATM (Rage Against The Machines). RATM is known for its opposition to American Foriegn Policy. Which goes along with the theme that the Matrix is a form of control like governments and religions.

2) I do not think that they(warner bros or whoever) were going for the Indian Market. I do not have the market data but I can assume that the M3 did not gross as much as a Bollywood Blockbuster. Piracy is widespread in India so Warner Bros mainly got their revenues from the metros. Besides there are much better ways to penetrate the indian entertainment industry. The name Sati was given for a reason. There are various interpretation. I think that Sati = Sacrifice and the Parents made a deal with the Merovingian to save her.

3) Going back to that interview the brothers have mentioned that there are elements of various religions and mainly Gnostic Christianity and Buddhism. The interview was before the release of M2. I believe that the Wachowskis do not intend to promote any religion. I think their message is that Religion, Government and other institutions are just various means of control.

There is a very good post on this site that explains the entire trilogy. I have briefly glanced at your reccomended article and there are a lot of flaws in them. Maybe I post a message about those flaws.

I do not like Hindu Nationalists either. I find their views amusing and it never fails to bring a smile on my face. However I do support the BJP. More on that later.

I appologize for not quoting any idea that isnt entirely mine.... I guess you can say that most of the above post are based on the information found on other websites or in this one too.

looking forward to some replies

HORSE WITH NO NAME
ralph_angelus

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hey fatpie
for an englishman(?) u seem to know much abt the domestic problems in india. yes, the hindutva nuts were responsible for the (continuing) problem in Ayodhya. they demolished somebody's mosque and got away scott-free, can u beleive that? and i cant tell u how scary it is to have the BJP in power. especially something they plan to do - ban the slaughter of cows, because for them the cow is a deity. sigh, i dont know how i'll live without beef Evil or Very Mad

btw, ur journal is very entertaining. i'm wrestling with whether to take philosophy or physics. ur description of studying phil. is very tempting. what do u plan to do after ur course?

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Ralph. Yes I am from England - well guessed. I did a Gap year in India. My knowledge of India aside from the things I saw during those 5 months is pretty thin. Most of my knowledge of Indian politics comes from a single book by William Dalrymple called "The Age Of Kali". I certainly didn't realise the BJP were in power - is that true? *shivers*

I would like to be a journalist after doing philosophy but I am not sure it is likely. Journalism is a hard business to get into and I think I probably lack the organisational skills I'd need.

I think adityadesh should notice that there is a contradiction in their post. If the matrix avoids ideas of any religion then how can it have elements of gnostic christianity and buddhism. I am beginning to feel that, since the film shows elements of so many religions, it could even be based on Ba'haism - but I'm probably wrong....

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i dont know if RATM was specifically chosen to represent their views, but even if it is, it belongs to a different level of the movie. the movie has many messages on many levels, socio-political, philosophical, religious, what else? i'll let u guess which one RATM would be apt for.

the asatoma chant is a bit more important than RATM - because it was in the original score, and it was most likely included with the w bros suggestion or at least their consent. the movie uses many types of symbolic representation - names, the plot line, characters, events, number plates, and whatnot. whereas the christian philosophies and saviour are represented using all of these, there are no hindu philosophies being alluded to, just a few mantras. and the name sati - its very apt for the situation. sacrifice, as u say(do u remember the sati of the pre-independence days?). they could have used it simply for that reason. because morpheus is used, do we say that the matrix alludes to the greek pantheon? no way.

at the most, it is a reference to hinduism. nothing more.

and aditya, i think metaphilm's review is very brilliant. it is the undoubtedly the most unique, the most innovative, review i've ever read. and aside from brian takle's top-notch review at

wylfing.net,...
it is also the most brilliant. but takle's review is of course the best ever. but it trods the beaten path of interpretation of symbols - metaphilm doesnt do that, it does something DIFFERENT. thats why i like it.

bEagle

  

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Kevin, I agree with you about the chant.
M1 is about being aware of out trapped existence (matrix called as Maya in Hindu [and Buddhist] scriptures), M2 is about exploring our potential to reach out to the source and yet sacrifice for sustenance of love and M3 is about ultimate peace, liberation and immortality (end of Time). The chant at the end of M3 is from Upanishad, a very ancient Hindu scripture, sums up the progression of this trilogy. I also agree with Adityadahs that Nobody spends $ to earn rupees ( 1 $ = 40 Ruppess, I might be wrong there) in India market. So this implying that brothers made this only for India is farfetched, though is very flattering to India. Also, frenchman in M2 is not necessarily flattering to France either.

These movies honour every major religion and its thought. Brothers haven’t put anything in the movie without a good reason or significance. Including the way tiles show up in each these movies. It is laziness to say something is just put there. Some (dogmatic) People and shallow critics have trouble the moment they cannot grasp something with their own limited belief system. Then their tone gets dismissive and underhanded.

From M1 to M3 the villain is with Mr. Smith. Brothers haven’t suddenly changed the tone of the movie in M2 and M3. Mr Smith to me signifies the ego and small mindedness. He wants to convert everyone to himself. His philosophy can be summed up in his own dialog "Me, Me, Me and more me. And Me too" The real battle is with ego the Mr. Smith. The reason I feel this movie is great because it forces people to deal with their own and others' belief system and forces them to confront with Mr. Smith in them. If M1 was for Neo to come out of matrix, M2 and M3 are for all of us to come out of our narrow minded belief matrix.

adityadash1984

  

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I

Quote:

think adityadesh should notice that there is a contradiction in their post. If the matrix avoids ideas of any religion then how can it have elements of gnostic christianity and buddhism. I am beginning to feel that, since the film shows elements of so many religions, it could even be based on Ba'haism - but I'm probably wrong....
[/quote]

What post are you reffering to?

ralph_angelus

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i'll try to give a a VERY simplistic and quick synopsis of the tactics used by the film's makers. and i'll also acknowledge every single religion or philosophy out there, because as some people have been repeatedly trying to tell me, if u dont explicitly kiss ass, whatever u say, its just plain wrong, and ur narrow minded.

the movie is a brilliant exercise in paradigm shifts.
m1 : pretend for a moment, that u never saw m1 and m2. the concepts they present have never entered ur mind. so what do u think of the movie? more specifically, what does the chrisitian world think of the movie? they think : its a christian movie, without doubt. its not abt maya and the moksha and whatnot. u dont know that now. neo is jesus christ, and because neo is jesus, the movie is cool, because we're christians and its our goddam duty to see the movie. everybody on the christian spectrum, for hardcore dogmatics to sunday christians to deathbed converts to philosophers to movie freaks thought the movie was great.

m2, paradigm shift no.1 : what do the rationalists and the european nihilists and enlightenment philosophers think? we heard abt reason and causality.we know its all cause and effect. the architect talks like sigmund freud. we saw a lot cool twists. and the more simple minded - we heard french, and sexy french people. so we know, the movie is not abt christianity, but abt the rationalism, and everything we stand for. what do the christianst think? ok, we didnt get see the sermon on the mount and zion is immoral. but the movie still has resurrection and faith and whatnot, so its still abt christianity.

m3, paradigm shift no. 2. : u hear navras, and theres a girl named samed sati. so what do the asians and hindus and the east-influenced think? its abt maya, and liberation from maya, moksha, and nirvana, immortality and union with the world spirit, reaching into our selves to find Eternal Peace, and the seven incarnations of vishnu, Hare Krishna! i'll tell u fact, not because i want to insult anyone or say that the movie is exclusively for the christians or anything, but simply because its a fact - the paradigm shift occured ONLY because u heard navras and saw the nice indian family. remove those two elements, and u never thought of maya, unless ur so conditioned that u can see things only in that fixed perspective. and the christian are still pleased because they saw the cross on neo's body, because neo sacrificed himself for the sins of the smiths of the world. and the enlightenment and buddhist philosophers are pleased because theres no conclusion, no meaning, nothing, nirvana

paradigm shift no. 3, for those who dare to be detached : all of the above people are right, and all of them are WRONG. the movie is about christianity, and rationalism, and rave parties, and nirvana and moksha, but most of all, its about global marketing. applaud the sheer genius of the makers of the movie! even after telling u all this, some will still persist in thinking that its about their philosophy. but thats exactly what the movie-makers had in mind. buy the tickets, and interpret as ye bloody like.

bEagle

  

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The marketing of the movie was good, nothing wrong with that and nobody denies that. We are just disputing this farfetched conclusion that somebody spent a grand Hollywood budget to make a movie to sell it in Indian market (1 $ = 45 RS) where probably very few people rarely watch an English movie.

For me even M1 appeared as the common ground of Vedanta, Buddhism and Christianity. Maya as matrix is Vedantic/Budhist concept. Morpheus, the Guru creates that awareness about the illusion. M1 is all about dealing with that awareness. Vedanta doesn’t dwell too much in good-evil duality (hence Mero is a side show), but focuses mainly on dealing with your own ego (Mr. Smith). As that is what stands between yours self and the infinite. From that perspective Smith always has been the main villain in all 3 movies and no paradigm shift there. For those who are stuck on only one perspective, the movie ‘appears’ to have shifted in M2 and M3, and then they wrongfully conclude things such as this multimillion $ Hollywood budget was spent just to cater to a measly Indian movie market. What they really ignore and fail to acknowledge is that M2 and M3 were really intended to made as a ‘Red Pill’ to those who are stuck on one thing.

adityadash1984

  

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matrix-explained.com...

Ralph you shoul read this review. As far as M1 being the Christian movie and all that, try this: the scene of Neo meeting everyone in Zion and trying to help them was banned in Lebanon since they try to portray Neo as Jesus. As far as Christian elements are concerned they are consistent throughout the trilogy. I for one was thinking about the concept of Maya after M1 but that can be because I like the Mahabharat.
I can understand why M1 might be different from M2 and M3. Initially Warner Bros. might have been hesitant to finance a movie that is so intellectually stimulating. Which is why they have a sort of closure at the end of M1 (as in you can make your own conclusions). I also recollect that at one of the awards show Keanu Reeves on recieving the award on behalf of the movie commented that he was glad that people could appreciate such an intelligent movie.
I agree with you on the note that in M3 the Hindu elements became obvious. However the whole idea of adding certain elements for the sole purpose of making a profit from that region is a bit far fetched. The key element in attaining success in a foriegn market is to adopt to local customs. That is why we have the Maharaja Mac in India and the Big Mac in USA.

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