»What are we all looking for?«

It strikes me as both funny and sad that we are here, tearing and clawing and disecting these movies, and all the various media that has come with them, searching. For what?

As I sit here and write this it is there; lines, scenes that touched me, that awakened a part of me, asleep. There was a part of me that was hoping for some divine truth, some answer to the question that drives me . . . what are we doing here? We search out the clues left in the wake of the Matrix production, and in a few months we will have rendered every possible explanation and opinion on these boards about every aspect of the movies, the anime, the comics, the video games, the books, and whatever else might be forthcoming. (in my opinion the W. Bros. should move past this right now and never look back. Let what has been produced thus far stand on it's own. As Hanible Lecter says: "Everything you need to find him is here, Clarise.")

That divine truth was there and it was not. It was there in it's message, it's tone, it's vocabulary, it's mood. It was not there in that it was almost seven hours of our lives, and when it was over we are once again faced with the choices we have made and are making. We are faced with our lives, individualy and collectively, and clearly we know that the answeres are there, if we are looking, in whatever flavor (Christianity, Wicca, Logic, Gnosticism, etc.) we might as individuals be inclined to hear.

I know that I will drift in and out of these boards for the next few whatever, days, weeks, months . . . and I will arrive at the same conclusion I arrived at after seeing the first matrix, or after reading "Illusions" by Richard Bach, or after burning buds for a while . . . No, the answer is not there either. And when I stop and think about it, I know that I am searching circles around the answers that would make sense of my life; that it is right there for me to see; that in fact, I use my search of the truth as evidence of my well being, when in fact it is a symptom of my sickness. It is not that I cannot find the answers to my life, but rather that I do not want to know them. I am afraid to look at who I really am, in all his splendor and blight, and be that man. And I know I am not alone.

I hope for humanity's sake that it does not come to the level of control that is exhibited in the Matrix Trilogy. But I also know that unless I become unafraid and become who I am, and we who we are, this is possible fate.

Don't be scared - there's no such thing.

no such thing as what?

There is no such thing as fear.

It is only a word.

GhostDog wrote:

It strikes me as both funny and sad that we are here, tearing and clawing and disecting these movies, and all the various media that has come with them, searching. For what?

For Happiness, joy, fun, and love. And perhaps also, like the girl Neo met at the train station, a purpose.

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or after reading "Illusions" by Richard Bach,

Great book. I read it again every so often because it makes me feel happiness.

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It is not that I cannot find the answers to my life, but rather that I do not want to know them. I am afraid to look at who I really am, in all his splendor and blight, and be that man.

So, Who Are You?

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I hope for humanity's sake that it does not come to the level of control that is exhibited in the Matrix Trilogy. But I also know that unless I become unafraid and become who I am, and we who we are, this is possible fate.

You already are who you are, it's knowing who you are that is the task. And once you know who you are you will no longer be afraid. The Buddhists have a saying, it goes "Look within, thou art Buddha."

Heres something from the Hindu religion i thought i would share;

**From "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" by Joseph, Campbell describing the symbolism of a traditional Shiva statue;

diemkai: Don't come off to me like your some enlightened One who lives without fear. Your statement makes you look like a dime-store messiah. Saying to me "There is no such thing as fear. It's just a word." makes me think you missed a key point in Revolutions. It is "just a word", but what lends it wieght is the meaning we attach to it, just as Seti's father explained when talking of love. Are you saying you attach no meaning to the word fear? I don't buy it for one minute.

Ka: You are correct in saying that I already am who I am, and that the task is knowing who that is. I misspoke myself in saying "become who I am." As far as the answer to the question "who am I", some days I know better than others. One the day I wrote the lead post in this thread I was feeling particularly morose and demoralized, and these feelings clearly came out in the post. In any case, your kind words and healing passages from Joseph Cambell (one of my favorites) and William Mistele are appreciated.

I'd also like to say, Ka, that a point I was trying to make, or a question I was trying to ask, is this: Am I the only one who is looking for some meaning in life, some better understanding of myself, through this trilogy, or have we all to a greater or lesser extent seen in it some truth that we were previously unaware of, but were disapointed or left feeling a little empty when it was all over because we are still faced with our lives, however fulfilling or empty, when we walk out of the theater

GhostDog wrote:

I'd also like to say, Ka, that a point I was trying to make, or a question I was trying to ask, is this: Am I the only one who is looking for some meaning in life, some better understanding of myself, through this trilogy, or have we all to a greater or lesser extent seen in it some truth that we were previously unaware of, but were disapointed or left feeling a little empty when it was all over because we are still faced with our lives, however fulfilling or empty, when we walk out of the theater

I think i would relate the empty feeling to falling out of love with someone. Being in love with someone means you feel intimately connected to that person on many levels and when you fall out of love it leaves an empty feeling that needs to be filled. The Matrix seems to have touched certain people on many levels, more than just conscious ones.

Stirring and evoking mythological archetypes in ones psyche can be a powerful experience. Its all been like an adrenaline rushing rollercoaster ride with all the hype and discussion and wonderful communities that have sprung up connecting people together with similar interests. Theres also the escapism, which is hinted at in the first film maybe where Neo hits the escape key on his keyboard. We all like to dream and fantasize because its fun, exciting and makes us happy and helps to temporarily push our problems to one side. Which is why we go to the movies for a 2 or 3 hour fix of escapism from the normally mundane reality most live in.

I think the bottom line is that we should accept movies for what they are, entertainment, and if we get anything extra out of it well thats a bonus. But it isnt over with the films is it? The W brothers have brought up more questions than they answered, and maybe thats a good thing. Those who found deeper implications of some of the story will seek and study more about the philosophies and spirituality espoused in the film. Others will just take the blue pill.

But i dont think its fair to expect 7 or so hours of film to teach you about you. That is something that takes a lifetime, a work in progress because next year you may not be the same you that you are today. Some things do change.

And to answer your question (at last, lol) no youre not alone, ive been looking for answers in the films also, but then i look for those in many other places too which is why i may not feel so empty about it now its "all over."

Maybe what you are feeling is how it first feels when unplugged from the Matrix.

As Joseph Campbell said, "Follow your Bliss."

Did i ramble too much?

ghostdog,

u need a good psychologist. A movie of this genre probably isnt healthy for those with mental illness. With that said, We are searching for the answers because the authors of the film put in hundreds if not thousands of references to other things from our education and cultures, making it fun to try to untangle the 'jumble'... No one SHOULD be here to try to find salvation in their lives.

brion1234 wrote:

u need a good psychologist.

Oh, so there are good psychologists?

brion1234,

well put. People look for answers where there are none to be found. The Matrix series of films, anime and DVDs have no real religious or philosophical truisms. References to methodolgies and corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faiths of the mainstream, obscure and arcane are simply plot points to advance and enhance the story line.

If you feel you need to find yourself, and this journey requires you to buy into a system, then you will need faith and belief in the discipline you choose to attain your own personal enlightenment, even if only a perceived enlightenment.

Or, you can just believe in yourself.

Or become delirious and convert to a thelemite or luddite and wrap your head in aluminum foil to escape those nasty delta rays the aliens from Area 51 are bathing humanity with.

GhostDog wrote:

I'd also like to say, Ka, that a point I was trying to make, or a question I was trying to ask, is this: Am I the only one who is looking for some meaning in life, some better understanding of myself, through this trilogy, or have we all to a greater or lesser extent seen in it some truth that we were previously unaware of, but were disapointed or left feeling a little empty when it was all over because we are still faced with our lives, however fulfilling or empty, when we walk out of the theater

But, Ghost Dog, don't you think that the exercise of uncovering the layers of deception in these movies prepares you to do the same in life?I find watching them over and over shows me so clearly how much I miss at first pass. And we mostly live our lives at first pass. The practice of looking more deeply is time well spent! Also, Neo is a role model in that he finally puts his own attachments (Trinity) aside in order to serve the greater good. I found it very satisfying that there were dire consequences for all the killing in the first two movies. He purified all the bad karma in the final fight with Smith/Oracle.

Ghost Dog wrote:

Quote:

It strikes me as both funny and sad that we are here, tearing and clawing and disecting these movies, and all the various media that has come with them, searching. For what?

To be totally honest with you, I really don't know any more.... I feel as if I'm a little lost at the moment. I feel extremely confused...
My postings seem to have turned to shit, I'm having REAL problems.
I can't seem to sort out the ever revolving ideas etc. that are going around in my head...It is making me extremely depressed.
I've talked to my friends about this 'glitch' and they all reckon I'm just 'in a rut', and I'll come out of it very soon.
I need my friends on this site to help me...I AM SERIOUS. If anyone has any suggestions, or they've been through or are going through something similar please give me your advice THANKS...

Another Smith wrote:

If anyone has any suggestions, or they've been through or are going through something similar please give me your advice THANKS...

Read "The Celestine Prophecy: An Adventure" by James Redfield (its the first, and best, in a series). You will find answers there. Or even the book mentioned earlier in this thread "Illusions" very short and uplifting. These kind of books help programs .. i mean.. people, to find a purpose and follow their bliss. Short on money? There are plenty second hand copies on amazon going cheaply. Also, how about learning to practice meditation or Tai Chi or Martial Arts?

brion1234 wrote:

ghostdog, u need a good psychologist. A movie of this genre probably isnt healthy for those with mental illness.

Typical armchair psychoanylist. Its so easy to put people down, rather than to offer assistance, when youre hiding behind a pc screen isnt it? THE MATRIX HAS YOU.

ShiniGami wrote:

Or become delirious and convert to a thelemite or...

I challenge you to give us a decent outline of what a Thelemite is and show some knowledge of why they are "delerious" including some knowledge of the philosophies and occult/esoteric systems connected to Liber Al, Crowley and Thelema. If you can not, then youre just another blue pill pretending to know what s/he does not, whose posts should be ignored. THE MATRIX HAS YOU.

Thankyou Ka, your help is VERY much appreciated....
And the 'program' thing put smile on my face!

I will get hold of these books and give them a read...

I'm just not feeling myself lately...It's really a little difficult to explain...

I'll let you know..

Well, I was only into the Thelemic systems for about a year, as an extension of my research into Qabalistic methodologies, my knowledge is limited. I did have some very interesting results from my rituals, banishment and invocations, but I'll skip them for now.

Yes, they were very unusual, but I have to hopefully see these as coincidence, otherwise, I might have found belief in these "teachings". So I might as well start with the basis for all current versions of AA, OGD, etc.

>>Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Thelemic concepts as Gnostics or as they relate to the Ordo Templi Orientis or their influences from Chaldean, Enochian, Egyptian, Qabalistic, or also Aeonic and Christian systems? Then, you must take into account which time period of Thelemic writings you would want to delve into. If your focus is Crowley, he had attained various levels of enlightenment, especially after he left Russia and Louis Wilkinson had died. After these vents, his visions of enlightenment radically changed his Thelemic views. Personally, I think Crowley's "Magick in Theory and Practice" are the quintessential works. I have a copy of it here on my desk.

I have personally participated in OGD rituals, but that was along time ago (almost 20 years), when I was young and naive. I did reach levels above Probationer and Neophyte (Zelator 1=10). My involvement was more curiosity than devotional.

Do you want to expound on the 3 grades as per "Liber AL vel Legis"? "Who call us Thelemites will do no wrong, if he look but close into the word. For there are therein Three Grades, the Hermit, the Lover and the man of Earth"

This system of 3 grades is the basis for the AA founded by Frater Per Ardua Ad Astra, and also relates to the Qabalistic Tree. This degree system is symbolically based upon the Old Aeonic structure of the Judaic or Qabalistic Tree of Life.

This methodology has the 1st and 2nd inner rings, the GD, spheres Malkuth 10(Zelator 1=10) to Netzach 7 (Philosophus 4=7).and the RC (Rosae Rubeae et Auriae Crucis) spheres Tiphereth 6 (Adeptus Minor 5=6), Geburah 5 (Adeptus Major 6=5) and Chesed 4 (Adeptus Exemptus 7=4), with the inner school or 3rd Order, the SS. In this 3rd order you attain the right to establish Foundations below the Abyss, as in new chapters of the 1st and 2nd orders. There are also the alternate 10 grades many other fraternities are based upon.

We'd also have to discuss if in fact Crowley was really an acknowledged Magister Templi by way of the old order, or even the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. He had left London in 1899, because we was not allowed to enter into the RC, but upon reaching Paris, in 1900, he was granted status of RC Adeptus Major 6=5. The London Second Order never acknowledged his RC status.

And then , what system of belief do you want to follow to find the Silver Star? Can you ascend Mount Abiegnus and still not leave Malkuth? How best to avoid the fall, as warned in "De Nuptiis Secretis, Deorum cum Hominibus". And on this journey, how must you ignore the path of the Graal Messenger, or Kundrie. Should you know that Nature, which has a dependency upon the Infinity and the Eternal Female, is part of Binah, and how this relies on the Tree of Life for existence?

Truth lies in an Understanding of Binah, Superior Goddess/Mother and her role with Malkuth, also Qabalistically known as the Inferior Mother,

Getting late, just let me know your questions, I can go into more detail I've personally experienced.

Oh, also, I forgot, I'm a n00b poser.

And if only I could remember what ritual gave me this scar on my left wrist.

;P

ShiniGami wrote:

;P

Blue pill and "THE MATRIX HAS YOU" insults are now withdrawn. Altho you didnt show us why Thelemites are delerious... care to?

Still, it wasnt nice to agree that Ghost needed a psychologist was it? While i understand you may not have been agreeing with that part of the post it did seem so. And how, pray tell, could you possibly know that people are 'looking in places where there are no answers' (im paraphrasing)? The answers are everywhere you look, for everywhere you look is a part of you.

IF you can tell me why 2=0 i'll be impressed.

ShiniGami wrote:

Oh, also, I forgot, I'm a n00b poser. And if only I could remember what ritual gave me this scar on my left wrist. ;P

I'm interested to know what you mean by the above. Care to share?

2=0, The Alchemikal formula of Heru Ra Ha, as relates to Liber AL vel Legis, or rather, 2+x=0 of the Liber Pennae Praenumbra? There are various associations of these. As Ultraconsciousness, the Zero? The twin masks of existence and the nature of the universe? Hadit, the joy of dissolution, the nothing? These are questions best answered by the individual. To observe outside the tree I guess without getting into the arcane, and also into matters best not discussed with those who have not participated.

I may not believe, but I do maintain my oaths.

To answer your other question, that ritual is not written, only passed by direct experience to the initiant. Maybe you can find it on the net, but I cannot reveal further.

The scar is a burn, not on my wrist, but on the back of my wrist. To transcend the mortal, you must prove personal control beyond the incarnate. Willingly placing your flesh directly into a candle flame for a minute or more shows your personal resolve. The mortal coil burns, but the shell remains. The burned flesh is not important, but the conviction is.

Many years ago I had the mindset to complete this ritual, but no longer.

ShiniGami wrote:

To answer your other question, that ritual is not written, only passed by direct experience to the initiant. Maybe you can find it on the net, but I cannot reveal further. The scar is a burn, not on my wrist, but on the back of my wrist. To transcend the mortal, you must prove personal control beyond the incarnate. Willingly placing your flesh directly into a candle flame for a minute or more shows your personal resolve. The mortal coil burns, but the shell remains. The burned flesh is not important, but the conviction is. Many years ago I had the mindset to complete this ritual, but no longer.

This reminded me of the old tv show i think was called "Kung Fu" with the blind guy and his student Grasshopper? Well once Grasshoppers training was over the final test in order to open the door and get out of the temple was similar. There was a huge cauldren of hot coals with dragons on the side. In order to open the door he had to lift the burning hot cauldren with his forearms and place on a different spot. Of course, this also left the 'Initiation' scar of the dragons on his arms.

So do you think that when Morpheus first contacts Neo (Neo fight) its a case of 'when the student is ready...' etc. Could those outside the Matrix be equated with the A.'.A.'. or secret chiefs or those who are 8=3 and above? For instance, when Neo is being trained by Morpheus he gets him to leap across those buildings, could that be equated to the Leap across the Abyss? Or is that when he takes the Red pill and sees the "Real World"?

bbrion1234 wrote:

u need a good psychologist. A movie of this genre probably isnt healthy for those with mental illness. With that said, We are searching for the answers because the authors of the film put in hundreds if not thousands of references to other things from our education and cultures, making it fun to try to untangle the 'jumble'... No one SHOULD be here to try to find salvation in their lives.



1. I am mentally ill. I have bipolar disorder, successfully treated for over ten years now.

2. I have read "Illusions", "The Celestine Prophecy", "The Way of the Peaceful Warrior", Carlos Casteneda, etc. etc. All these books have been a part of a journey to this moment.

3. I have come farther with my own introspect and meditation in the last ten years than I have with a lifetime of psychoanalysis. brion1234, your post shows only your better-than-thou attitude and your wholesale ignorance of me and of mental illness. Personally I would be willing to bet based solely on this post of yours that I am more mentally fit than you are. You don't see me diagnosing someone I've met before. Superiority complex maybe?

4. You have no business telling me or anyone else what they should or shouldn't be doing here discussing or at the theater watching this or any other media.

ShiniGami wrote:

well put. People look for answers where there are none to be found. The Matrix series of films, anime and DVDs have no real religious or philosophical truisms. References to methodolgies and corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faiths of the mainstream, obscure and arcane are simply plot points to advance and enhance the story line.

1. ShiniGami, the same could be said of all those books I listed above. The same could be said of the bible, or the Koran, or any other media. Ultimately, it is up to the viewer or reader what to make of a story or "plot point" or whatever. Perhaps these references are only plot points to you. In those books I listed and in this movie and others, many instances of "plot points" have become points of departure in my thinking and understanding, points where my understanding of myself and my surroundings were greatly enhanced or turned altogether upside down.

This trilogy confronted me with some very basic questions about my existance: Why am I, or any of us, here? What is our true nature? What is the true nature of God, if he exists at all? Like those books I listed above, and others I have read, like some movies I've seen or songs I have listened to, I was intrigued by the questions they posed to me, and like all these other media I found that, while the W. Bros. answer is riviting, facinating, worth pondering, it is not THE answer.

I was simply trying to state in the thread opener that I know this to be the end result of my seeing these movies and spending time on these boards. Ultimately I come to the conclusion that while there was much in these movies to give me pause, and much to make me think twice about some aspect of life I thought I had figured out, eventually I will take what I need and move on to other things, and this fact brings with it a certain transitory melencholy. I was only wondering out loud if I was the only person who felt this distant, almost imperceptible sadness . . . I look, and I read these posts, and this is ultimately what I see.