»Shame on us, and congratulations to the bro's«

Consider my topic deleted.

Strav wrote:

After seeing m3, it is pretty clear now. We are trying to put more meaning in the trilogy that it realy has. - We thought that Merov would be something huge.. No it is just another char - We thought that the kid would be a "one" ... no.. it is just a cliche (a insipient hero in zion) - We thought that Persephone could be the mother of matrix. No . she is just a mero's bitch.. - we thought that Zion would be another matrix. No.. it is just zion. Neo stopped the sentinels because part of his mind-software was still inside the matrix.

some of these r still open to interpretation though...especially the zion in a matrix thing...that honestly wasn't answered...who knows, when the architect said he would free the ones that wanted to be free, maybe he was just talking about zion, and not the people in the matrix?

Strav wrote:

We are too brillian. So are the movies.

EXACTLY..i agree..that is what makes the w bro's amazing..they brought this brilliance out of people that you dont get from pauly shore movies.

Strav wrote:

after crying and feelling terrible depressed by seeing the best movie ever reached the end, and watching such a marvelous history, Matrix "deep-simplicity" changed me. I dont expect to see a similar movie ever again... Congratulation to the brothers

i cried too....sh

i cried again today too cuz randomly i thought about trinitys death haha..i'm a dork..but honestly these movies affected me like no movie i've ever seen, and i don't think any other movie will top them to me. amazing..honestly, just amazing.[/quote]

Cheese if we look at the zion thing like you do as still up for interpitation we can apply that to anything. You're trying to say since it wasn't proved wrong in any way it might be true. Thats like saying that Zion was never proved that it wasn't made out of cheese.Should we consider Zion to be made out of cheese cause it wasn't proved wrong? NO. and why? Because the brothers never hinted at it being made out of cheese and they never hinted at Zion being within another matrix.

What do you mean Strav, the Red code in Zion? What part are you talking about?

And good call Dwayne. Saying that Zion may still be inside a Matrix is like saying Star Wars or Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon or any other movie are inside matrices, just because they say nothing proving they aren't.

To all those who thought Zion was another Matrix:
You were wrong. Deal with it, and help us by discussing things that were actually IN the trilogy.

Malenien wrote:

What do you mean, the Red code in Zion? What part are you talking about?

Im sorry, I meant the all-golden-code...

The point I am trying to put is this : The answered were too simplisctic, when you consider the level and quality of the discussions over the internet.

Many points could have a HUGE significance, but they dont.

Only one example. When The kid goes to recharge Mufani's robot, I really expect to see something amazing happening, such the sentinels being suddenly stopped, or something non-predictable...

In few word, we have put too much meaning many points. The thing was simpler than we thought. Only Neo-Smith-Oracle-Architect-Trinity-Morpheus were important, but kid-mero-persephone-seraph-trainman-bearedman-sati-bane and so on were just accessories.

I sadly have to agree with those that are claiming that M2 was made to make us create too much expectation. M3 is beautifull, emotional, but not smart as it could be.


BUT, again, the golden code is absolutely outside all the 3 movies scope. There is no link with ANYTHING in the 3 movies. Not at all..

Dwayne wrote:

Cheese if we look at the zion thing like you do as still up for interpitation we can apply that to anything. You're trying to say since it wasn't proved wrong in any way it might be true. Thats like saying that Zion was never proved that it wasn't made out of cheese.Should we consider Zion to be made out of cheese cause it wasn't proved wrong? NO. and why? Because the brothers never hinted at it being made out of cheese and they never hinted at Zion being within another matrix.

thats actually EXACTLY what i'm getting at...a lot of the philosophy that's at the basis of the matrix is about BELIEFS, not KNOWLEDGE..they are two totally different things...a lot of the matrix is based on theories by philosophers like descartes, and the believing/knowing thing is stressed by him.

Let's face. M3 is Great but simplistic.

It is like in M1 and M2 a very complex equation like
x*y*sqrt(cos(x/10230903582378/@343$*(D*F(SDFSDF ... = 0

was inserted on our minds, we spend 6 months trying to solve and now
the answer is x=0, or something like that.

Definetely, morpheus has also no relevance in m3, trinity neither, mero, kid, and all chars that made us discuss so many brilliant stuff..

The only thing that is apparently brillian is the end itself. Those things the smith says is somewhat intrigant.

But I insist that the golden code is something huge. I cannot put a link for it with anything from m1, m2, m3, animatrix or ETM

still thinking about the golden code.

The golden code is how the machines see each other. Once Neo got to the source, he was able to see the same things they could. Actually...I should say he could see that before (Seraph), but he didn't understand until Revolutions...much as we didn't either.

I don't think it is quite golden code, except in the case of Seraph.

I have two reasons for this:
Firstly, why would the real world be code?
Secondly, it doesn't really look like code. I've examined the picture of Bane as Smith, and the one where Neo in the real world is walking in the machine world, and everything is glowing around him. It doesn't look like code so much as it looks more like Fire, or just plain orange.

But, In the case of Seraph, I would like to expand a little.
In Revolutions, if anyone caught it, a doorman calls him "Wingless"
Implying either he is simply an *angel* without wings, which would conclude the opinion that he is simply another character.
But, wingless could also mean he at one point had wings, metaphorically speaking.
By wings, I mean either something of value, or he was high up, or served a greater purpose.
I believe it is the latter, and Seraph at one point served a greater purpose.
Although he still does serve a great purpose, Merv's lackeys probably dislike the Oracle as much as the Merovingian himself, which is why they view his change of purpose as a "falling out of heaven" or a "losing of ones wings".
Comments?

Ono-Sendai wrote:

I don't think it is quite golden code,

I definetly agree with that. It is not "code" on real world.

Neo see some kind of energy. And he can see it only in things controlled by machines ( he cannot drive the ship, and he cannot see trinity)

Strav wrote:

Ono-Sendai wrote: I don't think it is quite golden code, I definetly agree with that. It is not "code" on real world. Neo see some kind of energy. And he can see it only in things controlled by machines ( he cannot drive the ship, and he cannot see trinity)

This is probably what was meant by the opening scene of M3.

The panning down through the green code that is the Matrix/software to the gold aura of the machine/harware which runs it. This one simple thing alone could signify that what we were shown outside of The Matrix is indeed, the Real World.

Neo is able to see this aura and interact with the machines because he is trancending the known laws of physics via some type of connection with "The Source". He is able to perform acts inside and outside of The Matrix which can be interpreted as being... MIRICLES.

What is the Matrix

Quote:

Neo is able to see this aura and interact with the machines because he is trancending the known laws of physics via some type of connection with "The Source". He is able to perform acts inside and outside of The Matrix which can be interpreted as being... MIRICLES.

And therefore beyond our understanding. Therefore all the more amazing.

My conclusion: All indications are that even before meeting the Architect, Neo was already undergoing some kind of transformation he did not fully understand. He gave no direct verbal indication that his perception had changed, but it was clear that his ability to discern AIs such as Seraph from the background Matrix rendering had sharpened, and now he saw them *represented* in gold rather than the green of M1. By the end of M2 this transformation had extended beyond perception. By M3 he was able to project his will as physical force, with a degree of control, whereas before it had been an impulse. I don't remember if he himself turned gold at the very end; I wouldn't be surprised if he had. Basically he had become *like* a program, if not a program. From the perspective of the AIs, he had evolved.

The question is whether he had been, in effect, promoted or it was a development unexpected by any. Certainly the Oracle did not seem surprised by his growing powers. The Deus Ex Machina was even dismissive at first. If Neo's powers were not impressive to them, it'd suggest the AIs understood the phenomenon. Unfortunately we see no evidence on whether they are as capable of it as Neo. Neo's transcendent (or * "enlightened") state remains a mystery, maybe that was intended.

The ultimate question of what role this (neo-) Neo can or will play is totally beyond anyone's guess. Maybe even the W. Bros haven't gotten that far.

* "enlightened": the Buddha is often depicted as a golden figure. But I wonder if the Merovingian and his petty programs also glow gold. We don't know.

Strav wrote:

After seeing m3, it is pretty clear now. We are trying to put more meaning in the trilogy that it realy has.

I think that it was the nature of the films, and the idea that "things were not as they seem" that encouraged this. I love subjects such as Forteana (UFOs, paranormal, et cetera) not because I believe them to be true, but that they show me just how we as humans, impose our own patterns upon the world.

These films are no exceptions. The mark of a good film maker is to make a story that is entertaining and informative at the same time. i think the brothers have suceeded at this, even too well!

Strav wrote:

- We thought that Merov would be something huge.. No it is just another char

I loved the fact that Trinity called him "Merv".

Strav wrote:

- We thought that the kid would be a "one" ... no.. it is just a cliche (a insipient hero in zion)

I got suspicious when I read an EMPIRE interview with the actor, who "bragged" about being a principle in any further films. It seemed unlikely to me, because nothing in #2 lead to it.

Strav wrote:

- We thought that Persephone could be the mother of matrix. No . she is just a mero's bitch..

Hey, wasn't that enough?

Strav wrote:

- we thought that Zion would be another matrix. No.. it is just zion. Neo stopped the sentinels because part of his mind-software was still inside the matrix.

My thoughts on this are...

Neo retains the connection even though he isn't directly linked by copper wire to the matrix, and hence at some abstract level he is linked to Deus Ex Machina et al, and the connection is called "The Source". It's that connection that we see him using when he both feels and stops sentinels. Consider, we never see him do anything in the REAL world (Zion has been confirmed to be in the "real" world, by this film, but that's a whole 'nother story) to contradict any other laws of physics, like fly.

Strav wrote:

... but ... The Red Code in Zion : This is huge . This is unanswered . This leads to something bigger.

The other thing we see Neo do is to "see" the "gold code" with his mind, hence the flaming vision of Smith in Bane's body, and all the other pyrotechnics. But maybe all we're really seeing is his WAP connection picking up power discharge, and how his wetware interface interprets it.

Strav wrote:

after crying and feelling terrible depressed by seeing the best movie ever reached the end, and watching such a marvelous history, Matrix "deep-simplicity" changed me. I dont expect to see a similar movie ever again... Congratulation to the brothers

Quite so, it is unlikely that we'll see anything that matches the originality of this trilogy, either from the brothers themselves or from anyone else either (though I hope I'm wrong).

continuing from the comments of seraph and being "wingless", he is the protector of the oracle, so could he be classed as a guardian angel?
he is definitely a programme, but not an average programme, he has a very important job to do which is why he has gold coding.

as regards to zion and the "gold/red" code, neo is basically picking up energy, using his wireless conection as half connected into the matrix although he cannot see his mind is seeing the enegy and making it clearer.
here's summit for you to try: when it's sunny, go outside close your eyes and look, get someone to cover the sun from your "vision" and you can tell, it gets darker....

I just want to regret some years after my post. during this time I realized that the m3 is a crappy movie, not jus because it give half-or-no answers to the internal questions raised (ok to not-answering to community questions.. but the the own movie´s?).., but it has many film-making problems.
I plan to put a skeptical analisys here soon, looking just into the movie, not into any sort of extensions to it.

Wow, you must feel strongly about this!