»Every question is answered,if you dont get it you didnt watc«

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Quote: Is Mobil Ave (is that it?) a metaphor for purgatory? Yes, it is MOBIL AVE, and not coincidentally (there are quite probably no coincidences in the series), MOBIL is an anagram of LIMBO. In the Catholic tradition, (and perhaps in the more broad Christian tradition, though I do not know of any such references in the bible), the Saints of the Old Testament are put into a place known as the "Limbo of the Fathers", a "place/time/?" where these Redeemed people stayed until the redemption that came through Christ. In any case, being in limbo refers to being between two things (the bar and the ground in the case of the caribbean game).

Limbo and Purgatory are not the same concepts.

Limbo is the place where the souls of good or innocent people who died before Christ was resurrected go (e.g. babies, people in Old Testament times) to await judgement.

Purgatory is a place where the souls go cleanse before they reach Heaven. Anyone in Purgatory will reach Heaven eventually.

Neo is the hero figure which must sacrifice himself for humanity. But it's more like pagan religion than christian. The source is not just a god but a SUN god. The antenas look like rays of the sun which are brought to light when we see it though neo's eyes. (Or lack of) Think about it. The Sun is the source of energy for life on earth. People from the Mayan's in mexico to the Greek's used human sacrifice to keep the cycle of life turning. Some did it to keep the sun from going away for good (Solstice. December 25th is not jesus's literal birthday but a pagan Solstice ritual date co-opted by christians) while others did it to keep food plentifull. (African tribes and such) In fact, the architect and the orical are playing games with the humans much like the gods in pagan myth.

If you want to understand this movie better (And star wars for that matter) pick up "Hero with a thousand faces" by Joesph Campbell. George Lucas created Star Wars after reading this book and it seems the brothers read it as well. Joesph Cambell found a commen thread in just about all religions/secret sociaties and mythology around the world which he calls the "Hero's Journey".

*******************

From the Joesph Campbell Foundation forum. Here someone points out how the matrix follows his book chapter by chapter.

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"Part 1. Chap 1. Section 1. Call to Adventure - "Wake up Neo", the white rabit, etc. Sec 2. Refusal of the Call - Not wanting to use the scafold to escape the agents as Morpheus instructed. Sec 3. Supernatural Aid - Morpheus helping him to escape the matrix and enter the real world. Sec 4. Crossing the First Threshold - Awakening from the matrix to the real world. Sec 5. Belly of the Whale - Neo's death and resurection. Chap 2. Sec 1. Road of Trials - Neo fighting the Oracle's guardian. Sec 2. Meeting with the Goddess - meeting with the Oracle. Sec 3. Woman as Temtress - Persephony (the Merlovingian's wife) requiring a kiss from Neo. Sec 4. Atonement with the Father - Neo's meeting with the Architect. Sec 5. Apotheosis - The Choice between saving Zion and rescuing Trinity and his reviving Trinity. Sec. 6. The Ultimate Boon - Neo's ability to destroy the sentinel while in the "real world", which I believe to be another Matrix."

You may want to watch "The power of Myth" (http://www.jcf.org/works.php?id=237) It's a very long interview with Joesph Campbell by Bill Moyers done at the Lucas Ranch.

A message which is as powerful as it is hidden is all religions seem to follow a commen theme. This is hinted at in M2 where neo goes into the matrix to see the orical. Look at the table with religious symbals carefully. Their are many religious symbals. Then look at the two pictures hanging off the the awning in the market. One picture is of christ but the one to the left is of mithras. A christ like religion hundreds of years before christ was suposed to have been born. He was another God/Man savior who sacrificed himself for humanity. The number three comes up in many religions. Three headed people, dogs, snakes and other animals. God/ Godess/All, Father son and the holy spriit. The squids and agents travel in threes. Morphious, Neo and Trinity tavel in threes. I believe Buddust have a god which has three heads. One head represents the good in us. The other represents the evil in us. The one in the middle represents the peace you can only achieve if you recognize and accept your evil side and not fight to deny it. What is it neo says he wants? "Peace" He fights himself (Smith) untill he realizes the only way to have peace with himself is to recognize he is fighting himself. He accepts smith with open arms. He is now at peace with himself.

I could go on but it's best you come to your own conclutions by reading and learning about all religions and myths. [/quote]

White_Pawn wrote:

wat is up wit the numbers 101 they appear alot and i have a clue equal to zero as to wat they signify

Rican ---

Damn that was spoken perfectly! There is so much spirituality in this movie that goes unnoticed. I think the whole trilogy is about 2012, psychedelics and the internal battle with personalites and facing your own shadow....

Chad

I just wanted to throw this idea out there: The Matrix trilogy very closely parallels Gnostic mythology (I'm not Gnostic, btw). Gnosticism preaches that the world was created by an imperfect god and that human souls are trapped within this world. This god, The Demiurge or "half-maker", tricks people into staying in the world by manipulating the world, distracting human with material and mundane problems, etc. . .He also employs "Archons" to keep humanity in check. There is also a goddess, Sophia or "Wisdom" who helps guide humans. Human souls can only free themselves from this flawed world by inner enlightenment or "Gnosis" which means knowledge. Gnosticism seems to have sprung from early christianity. Christ is definitely a central figure in the religion. There are also numerous small details that lend support. "Niobe" is an anagram of "Ebion" who is leader of the Ebionites, a sect related to the Gnostics. They rejected Jesus's divinity but still believed he was the Savior like Niobe does in the movie. Also, her ship, the Logos, is the Gnostic term for "The Word of Christ" which is his vehicle for the salvation of mankind (see the parallel?). Anyway, I put this post in this thread because I think you can explain almost everything in the trilogy with this one religion. In fact, I don't think that there are themes from any other religions. I think Gnosticism assimilated many other religions and the movie draws all its references from Gnosticism. Any comments?

oscargabrielp wrote:

OK, at the beginning we are told that Sati, the little girl at the train station is a program that has no purpose, and to the machines this is a bad thing, so she was scheduled for deletion. But at the end, when all the Smiths are destroyed, the only bodies that we see "recover" are those of The Oracle and Sati. So that has kept me thinking ever since I left the theatre, what was her purpose? Cuase it seemed to me that she did. Any ideas?

A little imagination again please; the little Indian girl program “Sati” is the last exile correct? This you are going to love.

SETI is the Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intellegents

So SATI would be the Search for All Terrestrial Intellegents, from what I’ve read online I would replace “All” with “Any”. So Sati, the Oracle, Saraph, with the Architect are charges with freeing those minds which realize the true reality of the Matrix. Well that’s the movie how does is apply to you and I? How do we free minds? What is our Matrix? What was its source?

Thurston The Philosopher

bachsoffice wrote:

I just wanted to throw this idea out there: The Matrix trilogy very closely parallels Gnostic mythology (I'm not Gnostic, btw). Gnosticism preaches that the world was created by an imperfect god and that human souls are trapped within this world. This god, The Demiurge or "half-maker", tricks people into staying in the world by manipulating the world, distracting human with material and mundane problems, etc. . .He also employs "Archons" to keep humanity in check. There is also a goddess, Sophia or "Wisdom" who helps guide humans. Human souls can only free themselves from this flawed world by inner enlightenment or "Gnosis" which means knowledge. Gnosticism seems to have sprung from early christianity. Christ is definitely a central figure in the religion. There are also numerous small details that lend support. "Niobe" is an anagram of "Ebion" who is leader of the Ebionites, a sect related to the Gnostics. They rejected Jesus's divinity but still believed he was the Savior like Niobe does in the movie. Also, her ship, the Logos, is the Gnostic term for "The Word of Christ" which is his vehicle for the salvation of mankind (see the parallel?). Anyway, I put this post in this thread because I think you can explain almost everything in the trilogy with this one religion. In fact, I don't think that there are themes from any other religions. I think Gnosticism assimilated many other religions and the movie draws all its references from Gnosticism. Any comments?

To: The Non-thinkers of the World “The blue-pills”

"bachsoffice"I believe you are a thinker...


Do you really want to know what the Matrix is about?
I know what the Matrix is; yet what it is not in the movie. The movie is an Allegory to events in our world. It's not to be found on the movie screen. The message is encrypted; so to speak, you just need to know the primer like in the one needed to decipher the message transmitted in the movie Contact. The message was embedded beneath the images not in the images. There are many clue with in the movies once you “Follow the path”. I used an un-abridged dictionary to look up characters names. Some are literal like “Trinity”, “Matrix”, “Oracle”, and “Zion” while others requires a little imagination “Morpheus” and “Sati”.

Here is what I mean.
Remember at the very end of The Matrix (1999); Neo is in the phone booth and he is issuing warning before he fly’s away:

Neo: “I know you can hear me, I know you’re afraid, afraid of what I’m about to show these people, a world without rules and regulations, without borders or boundaries. A world without you, where we go from here I leave up to you.” (From Rockybalbo’s post; Who did NEO call?)

I’m a fan, but you guys all seem to know the movie backwards and forwards, inside and out. Yet the next two movies, Reload and Revolutions, don't really show that anyone in the "movies'" Matrix is reacting to the huge battles erupting in their cities streets and the story seems to totally ignore them. They react just the same as in the first movie. Did you every wonder Why?

That is because it is YOU "the one(s)" in the movie's audience that Neo is trying to reach. It is your mind that he is trying to free. If you are in the matrix right now, and you are…literally by definition, what better way to reach you copper top batteries than in the theaters and through the movie industry. At least you think about a movie and will discuss it more than you do any thing else.

After all it is just a movie? Or is it? A little imagination please; Morpheus - in classical mythology is a son of Hypnos and the god of dreams, well Hollywood is the dream machine. Get it, and it is the Wachowski Brothers who are using the dream machine to find “The One” (who gets their movie).
So if we are in the “Matrix” right now "What is the Matrix?" Well back to the dictionary. Matrix 1. Something that constitutes the place or point from which something else originates, takes from, or develops: (The source)

Example: The Greco-Roman world was the matrix for Western Civilization.
We live in western civilization.

A little imagination again please; the little Indian girl program “Sati” is the last exile correct? This you are going to love.

SETI is the Search for ExtraTerrestrial Intellegents

So SATI would be the Search for All Terrestrial Intellegents, from what I’ve read online I would replace “All” with “Any”. So Sati, the Oracle, Saraph, with the Architect are charges with freeing those minds which realize the true reality of the Matrix. Well that’s the movie how does is apply to you and I? How do we free minds? What is our Matrix? What was its source?

The clue to the first half of the answer is:
Study the Greeks - Study the philosophy of Aristotle to learn his definition of the Hierarchical Cosmos, Teleological Politics, Teleological Ethic, the Philosophical Life. If life is meaningful? Does life have a purpose?

Notice the sign above the door in the kitchen or the Oracle's apartment "Tenet Nosce". Back to the dictionary: Tenet means any opinion, principle, doctrine, dogma, etc. esp. one held as true by members of a professional, group, or movement. Nosce te ipsum (Nosce) is Latin for "know thyself"

I am not a Theologian, nor a philosophy major, only an amateur historian, I’ve never read the Bible and I didn’t finish college. I guest you would call me an erudite man, although I just listened to a Greek Philosophy college course on 12 CD’s. Yet, I know I have been waiting for this message, in a movie, all my life. I am very much like Dr. Ellie Arroway in the movie 1997 movie Contact. Check out the plot outline on IMDB.
I started studying for this final installment of the Matrix trilogy 3 weeks before the movies release. If I can figure is out you can. Free you mind. I detach myself from the Matrix 2 years ago. Point Socrates in our age would be a homeless man wandering the streets getting into philosophical arguments with people. Except 99.9999999% of the people don’t think and have accepted the program.

For me the question is at what point are we in this saga? I dare say that some scenes point to the power outage in New York City, the objective for the attack on the World Trade Center, Pentagon and possibly the Capital, and our current culture of fear. Who do you think is capable of building a machine like the matrix? Hint Terminator III. But that would be the machine world. The question still remains; whom was Neo talking to on the phone?

May be something like Project Echelon our $41 billion/yr system by the NSA that monitors all internet traffic, cell phone conversations, faxes, and long distance telephone call - virtually every type of electronic communications. It’s being used in Iraq right now. Checkout the Newsweek article in October 27, 2003 issue, War On Terror: Desperately Seeking Translators, page 26. Cover story is “Design Gets Real”.

The second clue I'll give in a question:
Is the Messiah among us now?

I believe... he fights for us.
Thurston the Philosopher

Thurston,

Bend any spoons recently?

"Do not try and understand the movie, that is impossible. Instead, realize the truth. . .that there is no movie. Then you will realize that it is not the movie that confusing as hell, it is only yourself"

bachsoffice wrote:

Thurston, Bend any spoons recently? "Do not try and understand the movie, that is impossible. Instead, realize the truth. . .that there is no movie. Then you will realize that it is not the movie that confusing as hell, it is only yourself"

You may consider this a Spoiler. The Matrix Explained

Quote: Thomas Carlyles "There is no sin except stupidity"

The from Funk & Wagner New Standard Dictionary and other unabridged versions. Really old heavy dusty books.
Sati - Hindu Myth; the wife of Siva, Egyptian religion; A goddess corresponding to the Grecian Juno.

Juno - Roman Myth; the consort of Jupiter, identified with the Greek Hara. Juno was worshiped in Rome as the queen of heaven with the surname Regina, she was regarded as the genius of womanhood and watch over the female sex.

Regina is Latin for queen, pertaining to a queen; also, supporting or favoring a queen.

Gnos·ti·cism, n. The doctrines of certain pre-Christian pagan, Jewish, and early Christian sects that value the revealed knowledge of GOD and of the origin and end of the human race as a means to attain redemption for the spiritual element in human beings and that distinguished the Demiurge from the unknowable Devine Being.

Demiurge - 1. In Plato's philosophy, a semi-divine being, the architect or fabricator of the material universe 2. In Neo-Platonic and Gnostic philosophy, the chief of ht lowest order of spirits or eons inhabiting the pleroma. He mingled with chaos and evolved from it the visible world. He was considered to be a subsidiary manifestation of the Supreme Being, and to him was attributed the entry of evil into the world, which was felt to be incompatible with the divine goodness. Some Gnostics held that he brought this about unwillingly, others that he was himself evil and that the action was deliberate.
The power is not that of an absolute cause, but only a world maker, a demiurge, and this does not answer to the humans conception of Deity.
3. An inferior henotheistic divinity identified by certain Gnostic sects with the Jehovah of the Jews.

Pleroma - 1. a condition of fullness of abundance, or that which fills completely. 2. Gnosticism. the spiritual divine nature; divine plenitude of being, including all eons that emanate from it.

Eons - 1. an age of the universe; an incalculable period constituting one of the longest conceivable divisions of time; a cosmic of geologic cycle: a theological dispensation, an eternity, or eternity.
The present are, or eon, is 'time'; the future are , or eon, is 'eternity'
2. Neo Platonism & Gnostic Philosophy The personification of a divine virtue or attribute, especially, one of the higher class of emanations from the Deity whose substantial powers, embraced in the divine essence, constituted the divine plenitude or pleroma.

eonist - one who maintains that the world is eternal.

Merovingian - 1. of or pertaining to the Frankish dynasty established by Clovis, which reigned in Gaul and Germany from A.D. 476 to 751 n. 2. a member or supporter of the Merovingian dynasty.

Western Civilization 101 – The city of Rome itself was conquered and sacked by the Visigoths in 410 and again the Vandals in 455.

In 476 the Germans sack Rome and replace the emperor with their king the barbarian general Odoacer. (the Western Roman Empire ends). The Goths, Vandals, Burgundians, Lombards and others were the Germanic tribes who finally succeeded in destroying the western Empire. They were not totally uncivilized, even by Roman standards. Many of them, following the lead of the Visigoths, had already adopted Christianity.

Clovis, king of the Franks, became the first barbarian king to accept Catholic (i.e. orthodox Trinitarian) baptism in 496. The Franks became the Catholic Church's loyal subjects for centuries, culminating in their role as defender of the papacy in Charlemagne's time (c. 800). The Franks adopted the Nicene Creed and fused with the Romans under their rule and transformed Gaul into France.
THIS IS WHO THE MAROVINGIAN REPRESENTS
Source:

Carlito wrote:

In my opinion the Matrix is actually symbolizing a life of sin. Meaning a life in the Bondage of sin. Neo is representing a Messiah figure ie Jesus Christ. Neo like Jesus freely gives (sacrifices) his life to take away the sins of the world. In other words to free everyone from the bondage of their sins (or in this case the bondage of the Matrix). The Matrix is a life of sin that the Architect (Satan) has created as a way to control humanity. The Architect is giving humanity choices and they are choosing to commit sins. Neo comes along to free them from this life of sin. After Neo's sacrifice people can now be forgiven for their sins. When the Oracle asks if the Architect is going to free the rest, the Architect says something like the ones that chose to be free will be freed. This is representing the ones that ask for their sins to be forgiven and choose to follow Neo (Christ). They are "freed" from the Matrix (life of sin). The Oracle is God (or a representation of an all-knowing being). Agent Smith of course represents the Anti-Christ. Morpheus is representing John the Baptist. The one that prepares the way for Jesus. He spreads the word (prophecy) and always says that, "No the honor is all mine." Just as John the Baptist said, "You should be baptizing me" when Jesus came to be baptised by John. I have only seen Revolutions once so after I see it the second time I am sure I will understand more. I did think it was really cool when Seraph, Trinity, and Morpheus went to see the French guy, and when they get in the elevator you see the red button they push says "Hell". That was pretty cool. The whole scene with Neo and the Architect in M2 totally reminds me of the bible story where Satan takes Jesus onto a mountain top and tempts him. He tries to trick Jesus into making a choice where either way Satan wins. Jesus of course refuses to listen to Satan.

Bam, you nipped it in the bud.

Shibbydude321 wrote:

Neo didnt die, he was just unconscious but im not sure what the machines aer going to do with him. i believe hes not dead because we could see him in the gold code and he was brighter than the other machines, indicating life, because if he was dead he wouldnt have shown the code, and at the end sati asked the oracle if they would see neo again and the oracle said someday they will. I think Neo is alive and still has work to do as the one.

I think Neo is was being returned to the source. The program inside of him was still active. Thats why he appeared in Gold Code. If u remeber the scence before he for Seriph. Neo look at him and he was in Gold Code also. Indicating he is also a program.

[/quote] I think Neo is alive and still has work to do as the one.[/quote]I think Neo is was being returned to the source. The program inside of him was still active. Thats why he appeared in Gold Code. If u remeber the scence before he for Seriph. Neo look at him and he was in Gold Code also. Indicating he is also a program.[/quote]

Well that would be disapointing after all everyone has gone through Neo is just going to return to the source and upgrade the matrix program? What is the need for the matrix program if the war is over? Are the machines going to continue to use humans as power source and keep them jocked in to the matrix? Also all the human being kept in the pods for energy if they were released where would they go? Would they go to zion, or would they live in the desolated Earth? Also :

"The program inside of him was still active. Thats why he appeared in Gold Code. If u remeber the scence before he for Seriph. Neo look at him and he was in Gold Code also. Indicating he is also a program.[/quote]"

Why would Neo have a program inside of him?

I am just full of questions ain't I

Neo is dead. There is nothing simplier, if Trinity is dead, there is no real reason for him to fight.
Trinity is dead. Stating the obvious, what else happens when you get stabbed with metal poles?
Smith is dead. Nullified by the One. If he's not dead then the ending of Revolutions is soooo weird.
And no, they are not coming back. I don't care what the Oracle says, Neo won't come back without Trinity, she won't come back without Neo and without Neo why would Smith reappear?
Names are very important, they mean things and the meanings of the names explain a lot about the characters and their purpose. Persephone, wife of the god of the Underworld, what else is the Merovingian considering his work with Exiles? And the club's name of course.
It fits the hero's journey perfectly.
The hero isn't perfect, he relies on others and makes the audience think.
Revolutions didn't have to explain much at all. The answers are already there if you think about it. Look hard enough and the answers will thump you in the head.
101 rooms are binary code, what the whole Matrix world is made up of, they are entrances and exits.
If you look around the world there are things that don't make sense, that don't fit, that don't add up. Who's to say that the Matrix isn't real, just called something else?
The answers will find you if you want them too.
Protectress of Dalidon