»HOW NEO CONTROLLED MACHINES IN THE "REAL WORLD"«

I agree with you.

thanks! I am assuming you dont have any "but what about this..." comments. Check out my post on the "more matrix theories, more matrix explanations" thread. The fellow there appears to be onto something, but I'm not sure if my post belonged there, couldnt find anyplace else to put it. I think it helps clarify Neo's nature for me at least, if not his purpose/function in the matrix world.

Ok, I'll check out your other post. But without all the exterior searching for clues, rejection of ideas because they don't seem original enough and just going by strictly what is in the films - what you posted here makes a lot of sense.

The Architect clearly states that the humans required a choice so that the overwhelming majority would be content to stay in the Matrix. Now why would he allow one of those choices to be real freedom? The Merovingian says that choice is an illusion. So of course both choices that the Oracle comes up with are going to benefit the system that keeps her alive. She's no fool. The humans go to the Matrix program or the "Real World" program and the system continues to run until The One pops up and reloads the whole thing.

Even if the first version of the choice Matrix allowed rebels to actually escape into the real world, this would have been corrected in the next version. Each version gets more and more perfect at keep the humans happy, content and enslaved. it's all the same to the machines, there is no reality except a VIRTUAL reality because they have virtual minds.

Now someone may come along and say that if Zion is a program the machines would just push a button and destroy it. That is faulty logic. The Matrix is a program, yet the Agents actually engage the rebels in combat rather than just push a button and blow up the section of The Matrix they happen to be in. When the agent told the key Maker it was time for him to be "deleted" he planned to do so by knocking him off the truck and killing him. So in both programs (the Merovingian says it's all just a game) you have to engage in some physical interaction to achieve your goals. The whole dock battle in Revolutions looked like nothing more than a computer game.

absolutely. the oracle has no motivation whatsoever to completely upset the matrix balance. But, she does have the motivation to change it. She is a "intuitive" program (notice the architect said that with a distinct note of disdain), therefore she will share at least some characteristics with humans, if anything to facilitate her ability to investigate the human mind, as is her purpose/function within the matrix program. As such, it is inevitable that she would begin to empathize with the human plight, and see her own future tied to theirs, as well as to the machines. I'm pretty sure she herself is a machine programmer, and probably created Seraph (the security program that protects her), and perhaps was the impetus for creating Sati, the creative program that was exiled because she had no "useful" function. Is it too far a stretch to say that she created the Neo program as well? (hopefully you read my other post by now...) What did she say? The architect balances the equation, and she UNbalances it? Is it possible that she created Neo to serve as the One, knowing full well that his creation would ultimately result in the situation laid out in the 3rd episode? You said it yourself well, the matrix would perfect itself with each iteration of the cycle, but would not the One's purpose become sharper and more defined also each time? The architect said the previous "Ones" attached themselves to all humanity in a general way, but Neo attached himself to a single individual, and a very strong attachment it was. Would this not intensify his "Unbalancing" effect? His purpose in the eyes of the architect is to return to the mainframe after facilitating the destruction of Zion and to renew the cycle, but the Oracle knows that the REAL purpose of Neo is to change the matrix fundamentally, and the only way I think he could find the power to do that was if he formed a strong bond with a single human, Trinity. Only then would he have a strong enough attachment to want to complete his REAL purpose as desired by the Oracle. Now my question is, what the hell is the deal with that last scene?

IMO the last scene puts us right back where we started with M1. The machines have the upperhand and we are still waiting for The One to return.

The tagline for the movie is "Everything that has a beginning, has an end." Yet the film is called Revolutions and shows us that Neo's journey was just to complete a cycle of the Matrix and reload the program. It just keeps revolving and cycling, never ending. At least now we know why no one knows the details - The One kicks the bucket without spilling the beans.

I think the overall message of the sequels was extremely depressing. Choice is an illusion, The One is a pawn, Morpheus is a cog in the machine, the Oracle is the Mother of the Matrix, Trinity is just the loyal and dispensable Girl Friday and there is no escaping the Matrix because Zion is just another level of the game.

wow, man youre taking this way too seriously...you need to look at this from another angle. remember the last exchange between the oracle and the architect: she asks him "what about the others?" he replies "what others". Oracle: "the ones that want out." Architect: "obviously they will be freed". Oracle: "I have your word on that?" Architect: "What do you think I am? Human?" End. Now, what others is the Oracle talking about? The slaves/batteries attached to the matrix who are the ones with their minds in Zion? The ones who want to be free of the Matrix/machines? Does this seem plausible to you? It does to me. I think the movie doesnt attempt to give the viewer a happy ending, but like real life, it offers some hope. If you really want to read something interesting though, check out my post on the "more matrix theories..." forum, under the 'mobil avenues neos complete theory' thread. The guy there has an interesting thread going. I'm kindof arguing with him, but not really...it sheds more light on the nature of Neo I think.

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There is nothing new at the end. Those who wanted out of the Matrix have been getting out for several versions now. That cheesey fluff ending was inappropriate and totally Hollywood. I would have preferred to end with Neo being dragged off by the machines.

Actually, it means that Zionnists could take out as many people as they want without being threatened in reality by the sentinels.
However, according to what I read on Matrix Online, they can't do whatever they want in the Matrix or else Agents a

I will admit that I too was pumped up by the first matrix, and found myself to be pretty disappointed by reloaded. I didnt even see revolutions in the theater, and only recently saw it on dvd. But, I found myself intrigued by the puzzles and questions in the series that I didnt really pay attention to the first time I viewed it. Sort of a closet detective thing...but youre definitely right, no more should be read into the series than necessary. When it comes right down to it, at some point a pair of struggling writers penned this thing probably in some seedy apartment while they were subsisting on cup o' noodles and grilled cheese sandwiches trying desperately to make enough money from waiting tables to make their next rent check and avoid getting tossed into the street. Or something like that. Plus, I understand the Wachowski brothers are a pretty strange pair anyway. Are you really going to take what they created that seriously? Hopefully not.

I've got a theory to how Neo can communicate. It also covers how he can see with his eyes burnt into overused charcoal.

OK, the Architect obviously has a lot of power over the Matrix. Some that maybe even the Merrovingian (an information highway) or the Source (is it consience? or a group of machines...the mainframe) don't know about...like hidden programs perhaps. He might have programed these in when he built it.
His purpose is to unbalance the equation.
The Oracle's purpose, which she changed (from investigating aspects of the human phsyche...), is to unbalance it.
So mustn't she have equal power?

Anyways, one of them must have programmed into the...what are they called...the pods and breeding farms...one of them must have programmed it to stick in a radio transmitter of the frequency of the machines so that their eventual purpose could be carried out.

The machine race already has the technology to tap into the mind, what would stop them from adding basic technology when the fetus is new? And the "One" was obviously predestined to be the "One..."



So, how this would work. When Neo is outside the Matrix, the Nebbuchadnezzer has blown up, the sentinels are coming...basically in a time of need...Neo uses that tiny part of his mind that the machines added, that transmitter (or signal booster, refferring to the bleeding newbie posters in the beginning of this topic...), and basically frys the squidies' hard drives. Virus-type thing. del *.*

And perhaps all this fate was predestined (see a topic I made...Parallel Universes, Fate, predictions...) and Bane had a chemical thats readable by Neo's transmitter (and/or reciever) that Neo was able to see in him when Smith came in. But I'd say its more likely that when Smith took over Bane, Smith also made the Matrix tell Bane's mind to alter a tiny thing in his skin, maybe activate some kind of "mind makes it real" thing that all pod-born humans have...perhaps...anyways, somehow Bane is readable by Neo's transmitter/reciever and thats how Neo sees him. How he sees the sunglasses and such? Well, he knows what Smith looks like, and the mind can easily make up for a large part of what you see...as with many optic illusions...or perhaps Neo cracked into Smith's RSI...or Bane's RSI. Residual Smith Image, haha.

I'm betting it was the Architect who did this, as it seems the Oracle didn't know. The One's powers extend beyond the Matrix. Well no shit sherlock! I think either she doesn't know...or she isn't saying anything.

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Either no one knows, or no one told me.

Stumbling upon a truth that was read between the Architect's lines?



When Neo gets to the machine city, he's probably reading the transmittions of the machines themselves. The machine's don't have (literal) eyes, and there are obviously a lot of moving robots...such as those bug or spider like things crawling around...Neo was probably seeing what they see...just maybe in a different light, haha...

My theory:
Neo has an evolved form of a wireless LAN technology embedded in his head (possibly a wireless modem pioneered by DELL and developed by the AI'ed robots) and managed to hack into the matrix with his extensive japanese C++ programming skills, hack through the train-station out of the other end, into the sentinal remote control hardware at the main base of the robots empire and stop the sentinels in mid flight and execute their backward anti-gravital thrusters so they stop dead in their tracks, thus falling straight to the ground.

Bit farfetched, but a theory nevertheless.

"My theory:
Neo has an evolved form of a wireless LAN technology embedded in his head (possibly a wireless modem pioneered by DELL and developed by the AI'ed robots) and managed to hack into the matrix with his extensive japanese C++ programming skills, hack through the train-station out of the other end, into the sentinal remote control hardware at the main base of the robots empire and stop the sentinels in mid flight and execute their backward anti-gravital thrusters so they stop dead in their tracks, thus falling straight to the ground.

Bit farfetched, but a theory nevertheless."

No more farfetched than some of these other supernerd techno-wet dreams that i see on this forum...

AnaisKarim wrote:

I wouldn't read anything too deep into it. I think the way the trilogy ended had as much to do with legal troubles as any real story elements.

Malarky. Despite your individual read of the films, there is WAY to much detail for deeper levels of understanding to be non-existant. I just wish you could see the second two films with the understanding I do.

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marcusrp wrote:

When it comes right down to it, at some point a pair of struggling writers penned this thing probably in some seedy apartment while they were subsisting on cup o' noodles and grilled cheese sandwiches trying desperately to make enough money from waiting tables to make their next rent check and avoid getting tossed into the street. Or something like that. Plus, I understand the Wachowski brothers are a pretty strange pair anyway. Are you really going to take what they created that seriously? Hopefully not.

They produced Bound with their own dollar.

A Strange pair? There's a fine line between madness and genius. They spent YEARS on the world of the matrix. Eleven, to be precise. To think that the second two movies are just cobbled together to make money is not only ridiculous, it's ignorant. If they wanted to make money, they would have picked another action movie to do, and would have adequately ended The Matrix, with no interest in a sequel. The films were a Trilogy at birth. There would have been no Matrix if the brothers hadn't written the rest of the story. Conversely, to bring money into the picture, M2 and M3 never would have been made if The Matrix didn't crush at the box office.

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AnaisKarim wrote:

There is nothing new at the end. Those who wanted out of the Matrix have been getting out for several versions now. That cheesey fluff ending was inappropriate and totally Hollywood. I would have preferred to end with Neo being dragged off by the machines.

Actually, it means that Zionnists can take out as many people as they want without being threatened in reality by the sentinels.

However, according to what I read on Matrix Online, they can't do whatever they want in the Matrix or else Agents would kick their ass. You said above that there would be no action if peace was established : don't forget the exiles, avid for power, who hate to see strangers on their turff.

In the first matrix when Neo destroyed Smith, it left an impression of smiths code onto neo, and neo onto smith. (as he explains as the "connection between us" in the second movie before the burley brawl) Smith being a machine had the ability to control programs and machines in BOTH the real world (sentinals) and other programs in the Matrix. Perhaps when Neo destroyed Smith in the first movie, this part of smiths code was given to neo, which allowed him to control the machines in the real world.

Post your replys to my little theory i wrote here

Also the oracle said that the one has the ability to change the code of the matrix... perhaps this was imprinted onto Smith which made him a "virus" of the matrix system, and allowing him to change the code and replicating himself... much like a computer virus..

But then the obvious question arises... how can part of Smiths coding imprint onto Neo if Neo is in fact human? This is the question that has got me beat... possibly Neo is not a human, he is a machine.. and also if he was human how can the Oracle read a humans future? His future must already be programed into him therfore making him a machine yet again? if anyone can answer this post a reply....

When Neo first entered the Matrix, the Architect stated that despite the process(of entering hte Source) he remained human.

It got me to thinking..

If the Source changed him that much, what IS the Source? Source = the origin of a created thing or things

so.. I'm thinking

what if both The Matrix and The Real World both spawned from the same source? The Source! Think about it like this.. There is a computer in a room in a top secret laboratory that can create entire virtual universes. Ok, there are two other computers that are linked together in a network. One computer has one simulation, and the other computer has ANOTHER simulation. Some kinds of data from computer 1 can enter into computer 2, and therefore simulation 1 to simulation 2. The simulations can be modified from the Source computer that they were spawned from. The Architect might just be the lead programmer of the team that created the simulations. To make the simulation really interesting, one of the other programmers on the simulation team sent the Architect(lead programmer) an AI program called the Oracle that would make the two simulations really interesting. The Programmer thought this would be cool since the simulations were starting to get a bit boring. The Oracle was introduced into the system and it proceeded to shake things up and generally cause chaos. Now that -that- specific problem was solved, he had another to solve - since all this chaos was being thrown around, it had to be rebooted every once in awhile. So the Programmer created something that could reboot the system while he wasn't paying direct attention. A reboot program and an admin program that would give the reboot program permissions. The systems can only be given the reboot command from another computer, so the reboot program must first travel to the Source Mainframe(where the Programmer popped the admin program, an avatar of himself, into)

From there on out, the reboot program gets permission to reboot and does so(at risk of losing everything, both the 'matrix' simulation and 'real world' simulation because of not being rebooted and therefore being infected by chaotic viruses, i.e Smith-esque things. Of course they too are the result of the Oracle.)

Eventually, after this happens enough times, the Oracle, being programmed to make things interesting through the use of change, gives the 6th reboot program a rebellious intelligence. Because of this will to defy the system, it chooses not to reboot when the time comes. The Programmer sees this and warns the development team. They all come rushing in to do something, to save their simulations. They are hard pressed to find any solution. However, the reboot program realizes that the system is going to get destroyed if he doesn't do something and do it fast. So it heads on over to a place where it thinks it can talk to the Programmer. Now, the Programmer is pretty pissed that the Reboot Program didn't choose to reboot, and because of his anger, threatens the program with destruction by saying the team doesn't need him. Of course, after a little bit of talking to, he realizes that he and his team can't do it in enough time. So he gives the reboot program a chance to destroy the virus. He does, but because the virus is there BECAUSE of the reboot program(and because of the Oracle, for which he himself is also the result of), he takes himself out along with the virus. This rids the possibility of the virus coming back and causing destruction like it has been for so many versions of the simulations. So what's the next change that the Oracle has in mind? Free flow of all kinds of data between both computers! However, this means that the Oracle is getting out of control and might just destroy the system single handedly through its choices to keep the simulation interesting. It might overload the simulations like the virus anyway! The Programmer curses himself that he should've seen all this happening when he first depended the continued existence of the simulations on the Oracle AI. However, until the Programmer and the simulation team can find a way to remove the Oracle without annihilating their hard work, they'll have to go along with it.

That's where Revolutions ends up, I think.

m4jor_p41n wrote:

There is a rational explaination... that is how he is able to control machines outside of the matrix world, since he has a conection to the source. The oracle even stated this fact "The power of the One extends beyond this world. It reaches from here all the way back to where it came from." (where it came from meaning the source) Based on my above explaination: you can see that clearly I'm not a believer in Matrix within Matrix theory. ahem (cough) Scienthiest .. are you listening?

I agree. If Neo's power reaches the source (as the oracle says), and the source controls the machines, then why can't Neo control the machines by having his power go through the source? Isn't the will of Neo's mind where his power comes from in the matrix? So my theory is that his mind has to reach the machines by going though the source in order to stop the sentenals. The machienes are confused because they know Neo's mind doesn't belong with in them. However they don't know where his mind belongs, (as only his mind is connected to them, not his body) so they put his mind in between the Matrix and the real world, in limbo to let him figure out where he belongs. Or perhaps they even determined that he didn't belong in the matrix because his body isn't hooked up to the matrix, so they put his mind in the only other place they were connected to. Neo wasn't prepared to do what he did. In his surprise or confusion of what just happened, he unknowingly allows the machines to put him in Mobile Avenue. Later he is aware that he has the power to control the machines; he also knows where he belongs and is not confused about his power, so he is able to control the machines and not allow them to misplace his mind. Maybe the machines' ability to move Neo's mind once his mind reaches them, is like their ability to move the minds of their agents.

In the scene where Neo and Trin goes to the machine City, we see a sentinel going trough him. What is the "rational explanation"?

Personnally i see nothing rational yet about telekenetics or telephaty or telewhatever...

To lift an object with your mind is called paranormal
To boot a computer is beyond
To hack the machine God systems to destroy sentinel is....

But a rational explanation....he the One
This sound like Morpheus preaching