»Seraph a Previous One?«

Although I don't remember exactly what was said, Smith said something about Seraph beating him before. I was wondering if this and whatever else was said when they met indicated that Seraph was the previous One. I realize the Oracle and Neo talked about Seraph being a program but I still think it could be possible. I may just be thinking too much about this. Any help is appreciated.

It is true that we see that Seraph glows (in Matrix 2) in opposite to programs like Agent Smith wich are green (in Matrix 1)...

It might mean that Seraph is different from the others... but to say that he was a "One" I don't know...

The thought hadn't occured to me. It makes sense that Seraph would be a previous One, for the reasons mentioned above. Also, because the Oracle seems to take care of some exiled programs (like Sati). She may have made a deal with Mirovingian, to have a body guard.

On the other hand, if we are to belive the Architect, all the previous Ones have returned to the Source, and their code assimilated. I assume this means that they're not free to roam afterwards...

So I've given you 2 more arguments, one for, and one against. Just trying to explore the possibilities...

After reading another thread, it made me think of what actually happened to Neo after killing Smith. He was being hauled away by the machines. I first thought he's definately dead, but what if he is just unconscious. The machines may somehow make Neo into a program much like they could have previously made Seraph.

I think you have to look at him in context with everyone else, and especially his name. He is Seraph, or Angel.

He too is just one of the older grade of programs, like the Twins and the Vampires, that are more like entities than programs. Remember that in the Matrix, anything supernatural is supposed to be a program. Vampires, werewolfs, aliens, demons and angels would all be programs.

Taken literally, Seraph is The Oracle's guardian angel.

Cedric is right, he is just another program with a purpose, to be a Seraph, or angel, and guard the Oracle.

i wish they'd explained about him previously fighting smith though.

when did this happen? what happened? how did he beat him, no-one beats agents....except The One.

maybe we'll learn in the next game, or the comics or something.

i posted this in another thread but, i think that maybe earlier versions of the Matrix were based in different time periods? like old world Europe or ancient China, and the other Exiles we see (the Twins, Cain & Abel, Seraph) were Agents of the system? it's possible that Seraph was enlightened (or unplugged) by the Oracle, and that's why he's indebted to her.

i think seraph was a programmed designed by the oracle to protect her as she guides humanity to freedom. he glows in gold code because he doesn't inhabit a human shell like the agents do (that's why the agents glow green). i would bet the oracle, architect, merv, persephone, and all the exiles glow gold as well. and seraph protects "what matters most." throughout his existence, what mattered the most was the oracle and by the end of revolutions, it included sati as well because she becomes an evolved program with complete free will, who can coexist with humans who still want to stay plugged into the matrix.

But when Neo asked the Oracle if Seraph and the oracle are programms made by the machines, she said yes and nodded. I think they got unplugged from the Matrix somehow and have their free mind now and can make their own decesions. Now the machines are looking for these programms but can't find them anymore.
I guess that is why they have agents.

The reason Smith said that is because either in previous Matrix's Oracle has needed protection [presumably from Agents/Smith] so Smith and Seraph will have meet before.Since Smith seems to have been present in at least one other Matrix as he seems to know how the events unfold, it stands to reason he will have fought Seraph. But Seraph has always protected her and beaten Smith. It could have something to do with Seraphs past with the Merovengian as well, but I think the previous Matrix's one is the main reason.

I don't think hes a previous one...But why did Merv call him Judas?

As a program did he used to work for Merv?

Seraph is not the previous One. Oracle mentions that he too is a program.
Seraph used to work for Merovengian, that is why Merovengian called him Judas because he betrayed him to follow someone else.. The Oracle.

And as you all know, the Merovengian dealt with Neo's predecessors which meant that Seraph fought the previous "One's" while still working for Merovengian. This was why he had to fight Neo first to see if he really is the One.

Once again - gnostic myth theory comes into play

Merv is Adam corrupted by sin. Seraph may be a kind of betrayer of Merv because maybe he represents the angel who guards the tree of life.... How about that eh?

Oen Eno wrote:

Seraph is not the previous One. Oracle mentions that he too is a program. Seraph used to work for Merovengian, that is why Merovengian called him Judas because he betrayed him to follow someone else.. The Oracle. And as you all know, the Merovengian dealt with Neo's predecessors which meant that Seraph fought the previous "One's" while still working for Merovengian. This was why he had to fight Neo first to see if he really is the One.

So the other ONES are programs or humans like NEO?

MATRIX RELOADED: Did anyone notice that seraph was doing exactally the same moves as neo when they were fighting? do that mean anything? If anyone would like to chat to me about matrix please add me to msn my add is Stupid email address

Oen Eno wrote:

Seraph is not the previous One. Oracle mentions that he too is a program. Seraph used to work for Merovengian, that is why Merovengian called him Judas because he betrayed him to follow someone else.. The Oracle.

I like that Judas explanation (now how do the people that say Seraph was a previous One explain that?)

Seraph working for Merv in the past also explains how Mervs, Q-Ball Gang Member, knew him -¨Holy sh*t, it's Wingless.¨
and why Merv says -¨The prodigal child RETURNS. L'ange sans ailes (Translation: The angel without wings).¨ If Seraph is returning to Merv must means he used to be with him left and came back.

ETM
Oracle : Thank you for coming so quickly.
Seraph : You have no need to thank me. I am forever indebted to you.
This would explain why he is indebted to her, because she saved him from Merv

I wonder what the wingless line means ... perhaps Seraph used to be an Angel with wings that worked for Merv and when he switched to the Oracles camp, Merv got revenge by removing his wings (kinda like he did with the Oracles shell)

Smith: Well, well, it's been a long time. I remember chasing you was like chasing a ghost.
Seraph: I have beaten you before.
Maybe it means that when Seraph was an Angel with wings Smith was chasing him down to delete him because hes an exile doing something hes not suppossed to be doing (flying)

Oen Eno wrote:

And as you all know, the Merovengian dealt with Neo's predecessors which meant that Seraph fought the previous "One's" while still working for Merovengian. This was why he had to fight Neo first to see if he really is the One.

I dont agree with that ... i think Seraph just fights people to get to know them it was not a special way of him testing Neo to see if hes the One because Seraph ends up fighting Ballard and Niobe/Ghost in ETM and he says the same line ¨You do not truly know someone until you fight them¨ i think its just the way he says hi ... and not that he was comparing Neo to the previous One, who he may or may not have fought with in the previouse matrix.

As to why he glows gold while agents and everyone else seems to be plain old green code ... i dunno, maybe because hes an angel with outwings? and only angels glow gold?

Oen Eno wrote:

Seraph is not the previous One. Oracle mentions that he too is a program. Seraph used to work for Merovengian, that is why Merovengian called him Judas because he betrayed him to follow someone else.. The Oracle. And as you all know, the Merovengian dealt with Neo's predecessors which meant that Seraph fought the previous "One's" while still working for Merovengian. This was why he had to fight Neo first to see if he really is the One.

Very good theory dude, i support that 100%. i think

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that after Neo talks to the Oracle in Reloaded, he mentions programs, and then nods towards Seraph, and she affirms it. He's a program. Not the One. Unless there's some major conspiracy theory, where Neo is actually the only human One.

Quote:

Neo: If I had to guess, I'd say you're a program from the machine world. So is he. The Oracle: So far, so good.

See?

So, does it mean that Seraph fought all the other "Ones"?
But why does the merv call him "the angel without wings?
And why did Seraph choose to protect exile programs?
And the last question: Seraph says to Smith "I have beaten you before."
WHEN? I don't get it?
And the final question: What are exile programs? I thought programs that aren't connected to the matrix (but live in the matrix) but Smith says to Sati that she is the last exile program.
Please tell me someone!

Oops. Sorry dudes, the "answers" are above. I didn't look properly.

Sorry for that.

I have an idea of how Sereph could have got the job as the oracles protector.

Maybe back whenever, Sereph made a deal with the Mervengian to be freed in a similar way to how Sati was via the train station. I'll wager that the Merv asked as part of the deal that he work for him. MAybe in a similar way to the twins?

I was also wondering if (this is me trying to think out of the box) the Merv made it Sereph mission to get the oracle's eyes? However the wise old oracle brought him on her side (just like Sati).

I think that Smith probebly fought with Sereph for a number of reasons. If you can remember back to reloaded the agents were keen to delete the Key maker. Maybe its the same deal with all such programs. Sereph was now free and doing somthing that he wasn't supposed to so the agents chased him, as they amy have done the oracle?

Just an idea. One thing is for sure I am not the oracle - so many questions?

Quote:

If you can remember back to reloaded the agents were keen to delete the Key maker. Maybe its the same deal with all such programs.

Yea i agree, it shouldnt take much to get an agent on your tail, it seems pretty clear Seraph is an exile program and so that should be enough to warrant Smith trying to track him down at least one time

A Judas is typically a traitor.