»The Architect Lied?«

So, did The Architect lie about everything he said in Reloaded? Is he like the Oracle, "just telling Neo what he need's to hear"?

Did he REALLY lie?

Tell me exactly why you think he lied. BE elaborate and as precise as you can for afterwards you will hear the truth. I personally think he didn't.

Everything the Architect said was pointless and had no effect on Revolutions.

He didn't tell lies, but anything he told didn't influence Revolutions much.

Smith would have spread, Neo would have been attacked by the 4 sentinels, he would have gone to the machine city, because he saw the powerlines.

What kind of things were pointless? What parts do you feel he lied about?

Everything, like that if he chose the wrong door, it would be the end of the Matrix, and Zion, and all of the things he said...

The architect can't lie cause it's a machine and it's rationnal... but I don't think that everything he said was pointless... Everything he said about the past was true, it's just the future that he can't predict as you can't predict the future with mathematic formulas with unknown variables...

On the contrary you can predict the future with 99.99999999-% certainty in some formulas with unknown variables, ESPECIALLY if there are set patterns and only variables that form PERFECT equilibriums with that of the equivalency of the equation (or polynominal).

The achitect talks about a 99% probability, wich is still a failure... And we only need to prove one time that an equation is false to prove that it is completly false... 99% not being 100% there is a situation where it can be proven wrong... So that's why the architect predicted that Neo would try to save Zion but didn't take the "love" parameter in perspective, wich the previous "The One" didn't have...

just my .02 testicles

I was for one to hold the Architect speech as the biggest clue to the Matrix. I spent much of time reading the transcript and watching the movie. Did he lie... NOPE. Was everything he said valuable.... NOPE

I was like WHAT? the guy who created the MAtrix doesn't know jack... it only helps to make Neo more of a Hero because it made us understand his choice. however you can take almost the entire Architect scene out of reloaded and replaced with a:

Yo Neo I'm the Architect, yeah!
You have two doors.
I can't see past my nose, so it doesn't matter which door you take.
Here's a picture of Trinity naked... take the left door.
Yay... I look like the dude in the KFC comercials...
dag! dude we wont see each other again... ever... maybe, I don't even know that.

I still liked Revolutions, but by cutting crap from both movies and making per se a 3 hour movie would had made for a much better sequel with room for Trilogy.

simple as that,
LOL

This should answer your reply more precisely PattyMacDaddy...


Architect: Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probablility of disaster.

Let's say we invented a machine that would sort through a bunch of newly born puppy dogs and then would destroy the ones that were born with birth defects. If you decided to save these puppies from death because you felt bad, the machine wouldn't understand this decision, it only understands that if the puppy is defected it must be destroyed.

I think as far as the Architect was concerned he was speaking the truth, he just couldn't comprehend how much impact Neo would have on the situation.

The matrix and Zion almost came to complete destruction in Revolutions which would have made what the Architect said true. He didn't expect or foresee what Neo would do, strike a deal for peace with the machines and then sacrifice himself for the good of humanity.

The Oracle touches on this in revolutions by saying that the Architect is mathematical by nature and cannot fully understand the situation as he can't take into account or understand human emotions and the impact they have.

KnnKnn, I disagree with you completely, even at it's simplest level the scene with the architect helped set the scene for revolutions where hope, choice and love can help to make the world a better place even against seemingly impossible odds.

The2 wrote:

I think as far as the Architect was concerned he was speaking the truth, he just couldn't comprehend how much impact Neo would have on the situation. The matrix and Zion almost came to complete destruction in Revolutions which would have made what the Architect said true. He didn't expect or foresee what Neo would do, strike a deal for peace with the machines and then sacrifice himself for the good of humanity.

i reckon the architect was speaking what he believed was the truth but he couldn't forsee how much influence Smith would have, not Neo. Smith grew out of control, which presumably didn't happen in the previous matrixes, and could have destroyed the machine world. Therefore Neo made a deal with the machines, which the architect could not have forseen as he did not realise Smith would get out of control.

Machines can love, but they can't lie? I don't buy it.

programs in exile can lie because they can do whatever they want. the architect is not in exile and is bound by his purpose to maintain the matrix. everything is mathematical to him, not emotional.

blackstaffx wrote:

the architect is bound by his purpose to maintain the matrix.

So why couldn't he lie to maintain the matrix?

blackstaffx wrote:

everything is mathematical to him, not emotional.

How do you know?

he doesnt need to lie because he is always confident that he can maintain the matrix. he tells neo over and over again that no matter what he does, trinity will die, zion will be destroyed, and the matrix will be rebooted. what im trying to say is that he always tells the truth as far as he knows it. he didn't predict that neo would ask the machines for peace because it has never been done before. so he was wrong when he said zion was destroyed. he never really lied - he just didnt know. even the oracle said he could never see the past the choices he doesnt understand or know.

as for him being mathematical and not emotional - thats why the oracle was created in the first place, to investigate the human psyche. it required a less than perfect mind (like his). he is the embodiment of mathematical precision. everything begins and ends with an equation to him.

The Architect didn't lie, everything he said came true.

The architect says that the door on the left leads to the source etc etc etc and that the door on the right leads back to the Matrix. He doesn't say that the door on the right definately leads to the destruction of the Matrix.

We can assess that because the door on the right did in fact lead to the Matrix, that the door on the left led to the source.... no lie

The Architect tells Neo that Trinity will die and there is nothing he can do to stop it. Trinity dies, because they're not in the Matrix Neo is powerless to stop it. (keep in mind that 2 and 3 were made at the same time. This plot devise was likely in place from 2.) in any event.... no lie

The purpose of the one is to return to the source, period. Everything that the Architect says after is not part of the purpose of The One. Neo does in fact go to the source. He goes to the machine city.... no lie

Because Neo didn't choose the door on the left though, there is no reset to the Matrix. The door on the left leads to the destruction of Zion, not the door on the right.

Just because the Architect didn't tell Neo everything, doesn't mean he lied. It means he didn't know. It's likely that he didn't anticipate everything that would and or could happen by taking the door on the right. We also have to consider the contribution Smith makes. The only reason the machines accept Neo's peace offer is because they can't destroy Smith where as Neo can.

He is above such concepts. That means that he really thought the Matrix would be destroyed if Neo chose the left door. The thing about the Matrix is that it's a simulation program (and a very complex one). Simulation programs are like random experiments: you don't know the result until after you execute the experiment. So the Architect could be wrong. Clearly he didn't anticipate Neo's choice. The problem is this: If the Architect was right about the left door, why would the machines program a system crash in this case?

The Architect didn't lie, he guide Neo in his journey as the One. He knew that a rogue program called Smith was taking over the Matrix, and eventually there would be nothing or no one that could stop him, so the One was needed as we saw again in the finale.

Thoughts?