»Niobe is Mother«

Hiho,

I have added some interesting thoughts (that a user has emailed me) regarding the theory, that Niobe could be the Mother.

Please read them at

This has been a nice try, but as Niobe is so much of flesh and blood it would be really astonishing turn out.

Form e the Oracle is clearly identified as such, despite thes weak arguments against it. Even the idea of Persephone is quite nice, but wrong.

But Niobe ... No!

I agree. Niobe ain't no mother!

the oracle has to be the mother. she introduced the element of human choice into the programing of the matrix. thereby allowing the matrix to keep functioning (or at least keep homies jacked in). the element of choice is something the architect could never have introduced. He eludes to this when he talks about "perfection." He is in persuit of it. Probably even limited by it. He can't tolerate uncontrolled/unballanced remainders so-to-say. So, the architect desined and built the matrix. he is the creator. the oracle came along and made it better. so she became "the mother."

to think of niobe as the mother is making something from nothing. its missing the point.

Well, now that we have come to an agreement, what the Wachowski brothers want, I would like to point out this:

Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Zion is in the Matrix, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Zion is unreal, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Zion is in the Matrix, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother.

Any questions?

Ok, it is interesting that you would even believe that Niobe is the mother. It has to be either The Oracle or Persephone. Now I managed to find the whole architect speech on the internet, and I have a bootleg copy of reloaded (shhh), here is basically what the architect says about the mother of the matrix.

The Architect - However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.


Now this really doesnt help much, well at least not that I can see. Both Persephone and The Oracle are able to "investigate certain aspects of the human psyche", The Oracle, is supposed to be a prophet of some sort, and Persephone, knew about the Merovingian in the washroom, she knew who Niobe and Ghost really loved in Enter the Matrix, and she knew that the Merovingians werewolves were very old, thus she has been around for a while, possibly as long as the Merovingian, who has survived all of Neo's predecessors. So it is quite possible that she is the mother of the matrix.

I don't see how the idea of mother keeps getting tossed around so much. It is the oracle. If it was other-wise, a name would have been mentioned.
That is all.

No, vice versa. If it's the Oracle, the Architect would have said "Oracle".

No... Neo said the oracle... if he was wrong, the Architect would have told him who he was talking about. If Neo's initial guess was the oracle, and he was wrong, then the Architect would have had to clear up who was the mother to Neo, unless there was only 1 other blatantly obvious choice. But we know that there isn't.

knnknn wrote:

Well, now that we have come to an agreement, what the Wachowski brothers want, I would like to point out this: Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Zion is in the Matrix, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Zion is unreal, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother, Zion is in the Matrix, Niobe is the Mother, Niobe is the Mother. Any questions?

Zion is the mother!

What makes you people so sure that the oracle is the mother? just because The Architect doesnt tell Neo that she isnt? Did you not pay any attention to the Architect when he said "Please...." that could be taken different ways, the way I would take it as like, "Come on", and if she was the mother, wouldnt the prophecy be correct? we know after watching reloaded, that the prophecy was just a bunch of bullshit, but if she was truely the mother, than she probably would have been correct.

Dreamworld, you are showing your misunderstanding. The oracle is also part of the system controlling Neo. It was not until Neo fulfilled her every prophecy that he found out that it was bull. She guided him to the source, thereby ridding the system of the anomaly. Yes, she is the mother, and I'm sure about it. Neo's first guess was that the Oracle was the mother. Now, the architect said "please," which could be taken 2 different ways.
1) he said "please (she is not an oracle!)"
or
2) he said "please (she is not the mother!)"

If number 1 is true, it makes sense. He said, that she was no oracle, but just an intuitive program who chanced upon an answer that worked 99% of the time.
If number 2 is the case, then nothing makes sense. The Architect switches gears at the mention of the Oracle and goes on to talk about her instead of the mother of the matrix which he had started off talking about. Also, he never decides to go back and clear up who the actual mother is to Neo, who was obviously confused as to who it was.

So what makes you so high-and-mighty? You said the The Oracle led Neo to the source, which techinically is true. But what she really did was lead Neo to the Merovingian, which led to Persephone, which led to the Keymaker, which led to the source. What would have happened if Neo couldnt get the keymaker? by your logic, it would then be impossible for the Oracle to be the mother, because he cannot reach the source, and the anomaly stays in the system.

they are all a part of the system designed to control Neo. The oracle knew that the one would be able to get to the source.

stinkz wrote:

The oracle knew that the one would be able to get to the source.

No she didn't:

The Oracle: "Listen to me, Neo. You can save Zion if you reach The Source, but to do that you will need the Keymaker."
...
The Oracle: "Be there, at that exact time, and you will have a chance."
...
The Oracle: "You've made a believer out of me. Good luck, kiddo."

showing my misunderstanding, shut the fuck up!